The Men's Roundtable Series
Every Thursday at 7pm EST, “The Men’s Roundtable Series” is a global conversation space where men come together to address real issues—identity, pressure, relationships, purpose, and personal struggles—in an environment built on honesty and growth.
Through open dialogue and shared experience, the goal is RESTORATION—mentally, emotionally, and spiritually.
NEW Every Thursday!!!!! Alongside the roundtable, “The Men’s Interview Spotlight” features one-on-one conversations with men who have overcome the father wound, broken through the need for validation, and redefined how they see themselves and the world.
These aren’t just stories—they’re blueprints for healing and growth.
Here's where you can book that one-on-one interview or if you'd like to be considered as a future panelist on the show: 🔗 Men’s Roundtable Series: https://calendly.com/yusefmichaelmarshall/themrts
The Men's Roundtable Series
MRTS Interview Spotlight - Where Traditional Masculinity Fails And Why
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Doing everything you were taught and still feeling dead inside is a brutal kind of confusion, especially when you’re “successful” on paper. We sit down with mentor, speaker, and author Jon Symes to name what so many men sense but rarely say out loud: a lot of what gets called traditional masculinity is a tight, modern script that trains men for control, competition, and emotional shutdown, then acts surprised when we feel disconnected from our relationships and ourselves.
Jon shares his own path into transformational work and the three shifts that changed everything, including the moment he realized we have agency, the decision to live for something larger than personal gain, and the long shadow a father can leave on a man’s habits and identity. We talk about how real change usually starts: bringing unconscious patterns into awareness, telling the truth about the cost, and using pain as information rather than as a life sentence. If you’ve ever wondered why men struggle to ask for help, why marriages can turn into roommate situations, or why achievement can feel empty, this conversation puts clear language around those experiences.
We also reframe “midlife crisis” as something more honest and useful: the precise moment your old stories stop serving you and you choose whether to rewrite them. From there, we expand the idea of an aligned life and challenge the definition of success, pushing past money and status toward stewardship, protection, and responsibility for what sustains life. Along the way, we name hidden narratives that divide us, including the belief that some people matter more than others and the myth that we’re separate from each other and from the planet.
If you want a healthier model of masculinity grounded in compassion, strength, and protecting what’s sacred, hit play. Subscribe, share this with a friend who needs it, and leave a review so more men can find the conversation.
Welcome And The Men's Roundtable
SPEAKER_02Welcome to the men's round table full of the chair. Men's round table, steady step in the dark. Real man, real faith where the food is a lot.
SPEAKER_01Welcome back to the men's round table series. Interview spotlight. I'm your host, Mr. U. If you're walking for the very first time, thanks for making us part of your week. Reliable LinkedIn, YouTube, and Facebook as well. And of course, all social media platforms, you can find our episodes, clips, and cuts of all the great shows that we do here on this broadcast. But again, thanks again. If you're confused a little bit, let me help you out. Every Thursday night at 7 p.m. EST, we have a men's roundtable series. We have a group of panelists from around the country, even around the world, that are on topic talking about issues that are germane to men. This is the opportunity to have a one-on-one interview with a husband, father, brother, or son who has a story to tell that is compelling and transformative. We're gonna have more of that today. So if you don't mind, welcome a good Mr. Minds, John Science is in the house. John, good to have you in the studio, sir.
SPEAKER_00Mr. You good to see you. Thanks so much for the invite.
SPEAKER_01Let's do it, man. We're excited to hear about all the things that you do. I probably could have given you uh even deeper introduction, but you are uh a renaissance man, in my opinion. I want to everybody hear from your mouth who you are, what you do, and we'll get into some discussion about why traditional masculinity falls or fails, or both. But a little background on you, John, where you're from, how'd you get from that place to where you are today? Go ahead, brother. Share.
John's Backstory And Transformational Work
SPEAKER_00Alrighty. I was born in the UK 60 something years ago. And uh great. In yeah, yeah, yeah, in a very kind of orthodox middle class family. Um, one thing that was important in our family was to somehow to keep an eye on the common good. That was something that my mom and dad held strong. And so the idea of somehow contributing to the a conversation larger than just my own life has always been with me. Took a turn 20 odd years ago. I got an invitation to come to the States. I live in California. Uh got an invitation to work with uh an amazing nonprofit based in San Francisco, and the work we were doing there was really about trying to help us as citizens of the world see that the future is in our hands. And that really got me into uh examining the stories that we live inside. And at the same time, I was starting to reach the end of the limits uh of usefulness of the stories I'd been born into. I was starting to see that the stories that lived through me were insufficient for the life I wanted to live. And so a whole inquiry's been started there. In fact, when I reflect, I've been in the business of transformation for 40 years now, and I'm still work in progress. So uh, as work in progress, I sometimes have the opportunity to lend a hand to other men, to other people who are looking to escape from the stories that are keeping them limited. And that's the work that I do as a yes, as a mentor and a speaker and a teacher. I love it. I know this conversation has multi-layers to it.
SPEAKER_01Anytime I get a chance to talk to men about men stuff, I know it goes from places. So I gotta keep us honest to make sure we stay within the confines of time because we do have uh a busy schedule ahead of us today, but I want to make sure we cover all of the high points if possible. But this conversation is hopefully about you know, men who have done what was told will bring fulfillment to find out beneath the surface they feel disconnected. It didn't seem to work. You talk a lot about uh where traditional masculinity kind of fails us. Look for you to hear, or let's for our audience to hear why you feel that way and what you've been seeing. Can you share a little bit on that?
How Traditional Masculinity Fails Everyone
SPEAKER_00Yeah, sure. Uh uh firstly, I always find it interesting that we talk about traditional masculinity when we're really looking back only maybe 50 or 100 years. The traditions of masculinity, if we go back to ancient knowledge, ancient ways, are very different. But in today's conversation, traditional masculinity is really about a masculinity, masculinity is designed to serve the interests of a patriarchal society. And we've been put in this position where we as men are the uh holders of property, and originally you know, that property is included the the uh the the financial wealth we have, but it's also included the lives of the people who depend on us. And you know, it's not so long ago that that a woman, a wife was considered to be the property of a husband. So we're we're talking about a structure that's designed to keep control of resources in place in a patriarchal structure. And therefore, we've been taught roles that allow us to fit in, that allow us to control and organize the our own area, our own kingdom, we might say. But then it's you and me in a competition. We're in a competition for resources, we're in a competition to be top dog in in the world. And so we're we're put into roles where the culture encourages to take on roles which allow the continuation of the society where um which is which is patriarchal in in shape, which is capitalist in flavor, and these roles perpetuate that. Now, the world's changed so much that we've outgrown those roles. If they were ever useful, if they could ever actually be justified because of the equities that were built into that. Yeah. Today it's it's blatantly obvious to all but the most um uh biased observer, I would, I would say. Blatantly obvious that the the traditional roles fail everybody. They fail women because the women are unsafe in the world, they fail boys and girls who are growing up without clear role models, and they fail us as men. We're losing out, we're losing out on acknowledging, knowing and expressing our full humanity. So those are the roles that that we've been encouraged into in the culture. There's a resurgence of encouragement now to take us back towards those roles, but we've simply outgrown them. Those old stories are way too small for how magnificent each of us are. Uh, and it's about time that we harness that because that's what life life's about. And and and these times that we live in demand the best of us, demand the best of you and me, and you and me working together. And so it's time to move on from traditional masculinity. I love that, John.
SPEAKER_01Uh, you spent probably more than two decades, um uh not being too generous, helping leaders, helping men in transition, and high performers like myself kind of uh undercover, kind of uncover the I guess the the narrative that shape how we think and how we lead and how we perform and how we even define ourselves as men. What would you say is the biggest shift that you had to make for yourself before you can really begin to really help people like who I just described get to that place? What would the big uh shift for you? It could have been an identity shift, it could have been uh understanding of masculinity, could have been a leadership shift, your purpose in life that you discovered. What would the big shift for you that enabled you to help other people?
SPEAKER_00Well, I I I'm I'm gonna probably name three. I I think there was a shift that happened in my twenties when I I was working inside a corporation and I got exposed to training for leaders. And I I realized in the training that we actually have agency in our own lives, that you don't have to um simply play out the stories that you were born into, that you can actually intervene in your own life. And that's a key point because, you know, to the audience listening, until we decide that we can be a force for changing our own lives and our own behavior, then we're really stuck on on automatic. And so that's a key point. And then there's a key point uh for me when I realized that I wanted to use my skills and my experience to play a role that was larger than just my own life. And that set me looking out into the world in a different way and trying to understand in a certain way how does the world work, how how does the culture get shaped in our world? And I I began that inquiry. But then there's much a much more human bit of it, which is still it's still in unfolding in me, and it's to really recognize and um adjust to the huge influence my father had in my life. He was a he was a strong man, and and I, you know, I think when I was 20, I probably thought I'd escaped his shadow. And when I was 40, I thought I was my own man. And now in my 60s, I I realize and my dad's my dad's gone. He died a few years ago. Well, thank you. And and and I'm still realizing what a strong imprint he left on me, and and how uh uh how many habits and patterns I took on unconsciously, and how in some ways I was I was uh always questing for his approval. So, you know, there are there are a few different lessons I've had to learn to open up to uh allow myself to allow me to remake me as a man. Yeah. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01Man, no, just like I said, it has so many layers to it. I I'll keep every time I get on this show and do an interview with great gentlemen like yourself, I always reference our uh our Thursday night show because I can't help it. It was born out of the cries that I heard from men, not only in the United States, but also in the UK and in places like Scotland, Ireland, Africa, uh, Australia. I heard the same cry. I'm like, wow. So it it was uh it was eye-opening. What it told me was that it's not just a national problem. We have a universal issue where men don't feel as though they can uh escape those narratives. They can't break through and be all that they've been created and purposed to be. And I created the uh men's roundtable series podcast for that specific reason. It wasn't to get likes and engaging analytics and subscriptions, it was none of that stuff. The whole point was for conversations just like this one, right? Where men across the world can hear that you know what? There's a man that was in your same spot, perhaps even a worse condition than you were in. And they were able to make a life. They were able to be a husband, father, brother, and son in the fullness or whatever that means. Still evolved, we're still growing. We're not perfect, we haven't reached perfection, but they they have a uh there's a there's a pathway for them to get to the place they need to get to. That's all that the both of these shows, the spotlight and the round table series, it's all it's all been about, John. So when I hear something like what you're talking about, there's my hard girl, brother, because it's like this is what this is all about. Uh it's more than just surface-level self-improvement. We're talking about, you know, wholesale changes that we have to make sometimes. What do you do, John, when you run into somebody who is, or when you are counseling somebody or sitting with somebody in a carpet shop, however you're interacting, where they are they basically follow in the script. They follow in the uh those unwritten rules about how what success looks like. Yeah, the emotions are acceptable, right? How men are supposed to lead, where they're supposed to capitulate, or where they're supposed to be aggressive.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01All of the all of the scripts that honestly nobody else understands but men, because we live in. How do you I know I know it's a lot, a lot to ask for one answer for because I just named six different things, but no, it's great. How do you how do you how do you deal with a person who is following a script and you know that negative script is not gonna get them where they want to be?
Interrupting The Script Through Awareness
SPEAKER_01How do you help them? What do you say to it?
SPEAKER_00Well, this is the beauty because the script so often is running in the unconscious, and so perhaps the guy I'm sat across from doesn't recognize that he's playing a pattern on repeat. And so sometimes it's just a couple of questions to say, so does this kind of thing happen often? Or is that how you normally would choose to respond to a situation? And and and this is the step of awareness. And so we sometimes we're just trying to become aware that patterns are happening repeatedly. And then when we can start to see that, the next thing that and and it's sad that it has to happen this way, but it's normally it requires us to attach pain and suffering to the process that we're that we're stuck with. Because we're seldom willing to step out of a pattern that's habitual into some other behavior unless there's a significant pain. The lure of something better is is often, and I'd be interested to know if this is you've you've seen this in your work with men, but it normally takes a pain to move us forward. I I think there's, you know, there are two ways of moving a donkey, a stick and a carrot. And unless the carrot is super big, uh, a donkey's gonna need something to move it forward, something to get away from, you know, and and so we want to get into awareness and then we want to see the the pain or the cost that we're paying for the limitation that's happening, the loop that we're in. Why is it that my relationship is dead? Why have I become a roommate with my wife? Why don't my kids want to hang with me? You know, what what and and what does it feel like to recognize that? And so often we have to drop into what's the the emotional charge that's that's uh there, the cost that we're paying. And then people become more receptive, and then the the the the the curiosity comes out, and there's the well, how could it be different comes across the table, and then we can start to explore a range of options, but we have to go through awareness and usually through pain to get there.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Uh, I don't want to try to answer that question. It's a fantastic question, by the way, man. Uh, I think I'm being interviewed now. But uh, one of the things that I I see a bit of a pattern with, I'm not saying it's an all-inclusive, one-size-fits-all thing. I'm not saying that. Hear me well, please, everybody. But there's many times for myself personally where pain pushed me into purpose. It was it was because of a need of, it was a desperation. So, you know what? The status quo, I've been doing it. I've been following uh my mom and dad's blueprint, doing what they said to do, to have the American dream and such. And I've been doing it for 30 years and it didn't work. It's not working. I'm not fulfilled, I feel empty, I feel dead inside. And stepping into entrepreneurship, venturing out into levels of creativity and community that I wasn't doing before, it changed everything. So I feel like pain sometimes pushes into purpose. There's a whole story about a uh a dog with a nail in his paw. What I'm saying is that sometimes we have an option. Sit there and let the nail stay in our paw and just complain and howl, or say, hey, this is why I'm hurting. Look at this, can you help me? And sometimes that second option is harder for men to do. Yeah, lift up their hand and say, you know what, I'm hurting. Would you please help me get this thing out? So I don't hurt as much as I don't hurt chronically anymore. Can you help me out with that? So I think pain and purpose are indelibly linked. But again, I'm not putting a one size fits all in this, it's not a formula. I'm just saying that a lot of times, before we can get into the place of real purpose, you gotta go through some stuff. You can't have a testimony without a test, you know. So I just kind of feel like I kind of kind of feel like there's a correlation there, but I don't know if I answered your question or not, John.
SPEAKER_00But that's kind of where I'm at with uh I think that's beautiful. Thank you. Yeah, because I think what you've said is is is uh essentially what I've seen. That that that pain gets transmuted, can be transmuted. It's not done automatically. We have to put the effort in, but but it's possible to transmute pain into into learning and yes, into purpose. And and because we're riffing, can can we explore the carrot end of things as well? Of course. Because, you know, what is it that would, what's the role model? What what's the example that we have? What's the what's the culture tell us about what a what a good guy looks like, how a how a mature, responsible, adult, masculine energy plays out through a man's body. And we have precious few role models of that. What we see on the on the stage of of what political leadership, business leadership, uh leadership in the culture, visibility in the arts. There's very little that actually shows us uh um a model that's that's very different from what we started off talking about, traditional masculinity. And I find that super sad. I I it means it's difficult for young guys to see a model. It's difficult as a young father to grow into, well, what am I wanting to show to my to my to my kids? So I'm super curious about how we're gonna create a picture and trans and communicate a picture of how we could be as men.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you definitely got to get into that. It's the kind of thing that we talk about very frequently because it's a real thing. We're living with this thing. You guys that are watching and listening uh online, wherever you're watching this show, if you have a question for John or myself, by all means, don't be shy, drop it in the chat. No such thing as a dumb question. If it's a dumb question, I just won't answer it. But beside that, we go ahead and drop it in the chat. We'll do our best to answer it while we're here on the air, while we still have more time left in
Redefining Midlife, Success, Alignment
SPEAKER_01our show. Uh, when I take when I say the word midlife to you, John, can you tell me what that actually means? Because I I'll be honest about it. What I grew up thinking it was meant, you know, a guy around my age bracket getting a muscle car or a sports car to feel better about where he is in life. He sacrificed so much early on, do all the right things, all the right narratives we discussed earlier in the show. And you know what? Now it's time for him to reward himself so he can kind of help find his the inner man that got buried under all that obligation and false identity. When I say midlife to you, John, what does midlife mean to you? What's that mean?
SPEAKER_00Midlife's a precise moment. Um, it's the precise moment at which you realize that the stories you've been living by don't serve you. Ooh, okay. And it might come, it might come these days. It could come to you in your late 20s. It could be somewhere in your 30s, your forties. You might still be uh you might be late to the game. I maybe I was late to the game, I don't know, but you might be realizing in your 50s and 60s and 70s that there's there's a bunch of stories that have been running you that do not serve. And it's time if you if you choose, and if you choose, free will is our greatest gift, and not everyone is is willing to choose the the pain of engineering changes in their own life or the or the the challenge of engineering, let me say it that way. But if we choose, there's an opportunity to explore into new stories. So I've just come out of a long relationship and I realized that in that relationship there was a degree uh uh to which I had uh given up some of my agency. Now I can actually only see that from from now in the rear view mirror, now that I'm outside of that uh of that relationship. But we we settle into patterns in life and we play those patterns until they don't work any longer. That's what I call midlife, and then we have to accept accept the challenge of examining our lives, what's caused them to be the way that we're complaining they are, and how do we want them to be different? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01You know, there's such an emphasis, especially with men, on a uh, I guess, uh a life that is considered successful versus a life that's aligned. And we've been talking about that a lot on the show, about the uh the aligned life. For you personally, John, you've obviously heard many stories, uh, shared experiences, you've been in the company, people who are following the script to whatever success level that actually uh leads them to, if any at all. What's uh what's an aligned life look like for John?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I don't I didn't didn't think about this in advance, but what pops into my mind is that story about you know how hard we're working to climb the ladder, but we realize the ladder's leaning against the wrong wall. Yeah. So I think we're coming to a time in the story of the human species when we're gonna have to accept some big changes to how we choose to live, or we're gonna run into some serious problems. And I think the the wall I want the ladder lined up against is the continuation of life on Earth. I don't think I want the ladder lined up against the wall called John's material success. It's time for us to actually broaden the lens and look beyond success defined as the amount of money I've got in the bank or my reputation, the number of books I've published or the number of friends I've made. I I uh it all of that, I'm afraid, is is it's too late for that. We're in a time when we start to we start to look at how is this species going to make it through the multiple challenges converging at this part of history. And I want to see the ladder leaning against the wall called the continuation of life on earth, the protection, us men using our role as protectors, our capacity to protect, to protect what's sacred, to protect the that which bears life, that which carries life, and the opportunity for our children and grandchildren to enjoy some range of choice like like we've done, to steward our planet, because that's all we have. That's what we we depend on for the air we breathe, the water we drink, the the food, the clothes, everything comes from the the planet. So it's time for a serious reorientation about what success is, I think.
Hidden Narratives And Interconnection
SPEAKER_01When you talk about, I think you mentioned about hidden narratives. If I if I got that correct, I'm attributing it to you uh correctly. What would you say are hidden narratives? Because I noticed some things that I think they're kind of right here in our face, they come through our television screens, they come through the movies in cinema. Those don't seem hidden to me. But in your assessment from your experience, what's a hidden narrative? What kind of examples can you find of those?
SPEAKER_00Well, we've talked about a couple that men live with, and so we as men, we we live with narratives that say, uh, don't show your emotions, don't ask for help, figure it out on your own. There, there are more, but you you and I know those narratives and how they lead us into feeling isolated and alone. And and then we could we could we could not hidden for us then they're hidden for they're hidden for other people, I guess. They're not hidden. No, we we're we get to know them real well. Yeah, but but the there are hidden narratives that uh place human value on a hierarchy. Some of us are worth more than others, and that might depend on our age, that might depend on our gender, it might depend on the god we worship or don't, or the color of our skin. But the story there that we don't see, we we we get caught in the story of talking about the differences. But the story we're missing is that we've decided that some human beings are worth more than others. Ooh, that's that that's where the that's where the unconscious story has got has got a real grip. And when when we're confronted with with the fact that maybe we've allowed ourselves to to live inside the story that somebody's life is worth more than another's, that might be an opportunity to to make a shift. And then if we look, if we scale up from there and we go to, you know, I talked about a time of crisis that we're in. If we talk about it on a on a planetary scale, we live with the story that whatever we see is ours for the taking. Doesn't matter what it is. It might be, it might be a hillside of trees that I want for lumber. It might be some uh fish that I'm going to uh trawl in nets that are five miles wide from the ocean bed. It might be that I'm going to take advantage of a population of people who need work and I'm going to pay them minimum wage and squeeze them hard so I can make more money in my business. So we that there are stories underneath and underneath. And one of the stories that's most divisive is the story that we're separate from each other and we're separate from the earth. The story that has you and me be different and unconnected, and and we're two rational beings meeting somewhere and having a conversation. But it's not the case. We're actually inextricably interwoven as people. We're actually an expression of life. You're a you're a unique expression of life here on planet Earth, as am I, as is each of the listeners. And we're connected in ways that we don't understand. And because we can't understand them and and see them under a microscope, we tend to, we tend to um assume that's not the case. If you look at ancient wisdom that's that that the way it's uh still alive in some of the indigenous communities of the world, or in those communities that live on the earth, what they honor is the connection of all beings, the interconnection of all beings and our connection into the the earth itself. So there are some stories that are really hidden from view. The story that we are separate is it's not discussed, it's it's not it's not visible, but it's powerfully affecting the way we operate.
SPEAKER_01Might need you to rapid fire for me just a little tiny bit so we can try to get
Healthy Masculinity And Real Freedom
SPEAKER_01them in. Uh, we talked a little bit early on in the show. If you guys would have missed it, of course, we wind back to the beginning of the podcast, wherever you find our show to listen or watch it. When we talk about traditional masculinity, what it looks like, where it has married, where it doesn't. But for you, John, what does a healthy masculinity look like to you?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's you know, it's that question of what's the role model. And I think we have um an opportunity and a perhaps a responsibility as men for protecting that which is sacred. I I think that's at the core of it. And I can think back and I can picture this in earlier um expressions of our civilization, and I can picture it in today's world. We as men don't carry life. One of the definitions of a man is not woman. We can't carry life, we can't produce a new life, we can't, we can't carry out that function. That's been assigned to the female of the species. And so our job is to, because the continue of continuation of life is perhaps our greatest priority. Therefore, our role is to do what we can to protect that, and I think that's at the heart of what a real man wants to do.
SPEAKER_01Love it. Everybody watching and listening out there. Thanks again. Drop those comments and questions. We're almost out of here, so time's running out. Uh, final question, John, for you. First off, thanks for being here. You're an author, a speaker, a mentor, and you do it all things very well. I can clearly see that you're a man of uh great thought and consideration, and I I value being connected with you. Let's end the show with this question I want to ask you, and then we'll close the uh conversation out for today. So, in your assessment, John, what does for those men that are trapped in that old story, trapped in that narrative, trapped in the proverbial script, the hamster wheel, if you will. What does freedom actually look like for that man? Encourage them on our way out of there, on our way out of this broadcast today. Go ahead, John.
SPEAKER_00Thank you. Uh, firstly, to every one of us, and that's me and you included, we are not broken. We're living inside the wrong stories. And those stories keep each of us from, and I really believe this, they keep us from the magic, the human essence that we are. Inside every heart, every single heart is the capacity for love and compassion, for curiosity and intelligence, for strength and perseverance, for kindness and gentleness. That's available to all of us. And if you ever, ever get a chance to look in the eyes of a newborn child, take that opportunity because you'll see the potential of the human being in the eyes of that child. And then once we're exposed to these stories, we start to get cut off from that human essence. And it's the stories that keep us. So freedom is what uh it, freedom is where we arrive when we can uh uh overcome the effect of the stories that we were born into and find the human essence that's inside. That's why I call my work whole and free. We are whole, we are magnificent. We're covered over in stories. Yes, every one of us has some version of the stories, but when we can see the stories, when we can disconnect them, when we can find alternatives, we find freedom. Freedom to be you, freedom to be exactly who you are, to express all of that human essence that lives inside of you. Whole, you're whole, and you can be free when you get to wipe away those old stories. And I wish every listener the opportunity to experience themselves in their wholeness and their freedom at some point. And and if there's any way I can support that process, that's my pleasure. That's my work. Love it.
SPEAKER_01Author, mentor, speaker, John Simpsons in the house. Thank you, John.
unknownMr.
SPEAKER_01You thank you. Thanks for all the great work you do. Pleasure is mine. So if you're watching us for the first time, thanks for making us part of your week. We are up on Men's Roundtable Series podcast every Thursday night at 7 p.m. EST. And of course, our interview spotlight, which is all day long on Wednesdays and Thursdays. So we got episodes that are brand new, uh already uh placed today and coming out today and tomorrow. So thanks for continuing to tune in. John and I are gonna talk offline about some new videos we need to talk about. But if you guys are watching, thanks again for supporting our show, YouTube channel, Apple Podcasts, Spotify. However, you hear us, thanks for making this part of your day. Have a good one.
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