The MRTS Interview Spotlight: Johnzelle Anderson - Trauma, Identity, and The Whole Man

What if the hardest part of becoming yourself is admitting you were never given the tools to know who you were in the first place? We pull up a chair with licensed therapist and author Johnzelle Anderson for a raw, thoughtful conversation about men’s mental health, identity, and the quiet damage that happens when a child grows up surrounded by miseducation, abuse, neglect, and racism.

Johnzelle shares what it was like being mixed race in Southwest Virginia as a Black person “raised in whiteness,” including the confusion of learning hatred from the very people meant to protect you. We dig into how he holds boundaries as a therapist while still staying fully human, why storytelling can build real rapport, and how more Black men are embracing therapy since 2020. Along the way, we talk anxiety, relationships, parenting, employment stress, and the real-life weight that shows up behind closed doors when men finally decide they’re done surviving.

We also explore his memoir, Mixtape and Memoir, and the idea of unlearning as an ongoing process rather than a neat ending. Johnzell takes us to West Africa, from Ghana to Sierra Leone, and explains how reclaiming roots and legacy can heal places a father never tended. The episode lands on a simple practice that’s tougher than it sounds: “Be kind to yourself, and I’ll do the same.”

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Transcript

Welcome To The Men’s Roundtable

SPEAKER_01 0:34

Thanks for pulling up the chair this morning. I'm Mr. You, and this is the men's roundtable series Every Spotlight. I'm your humble host. The goal for this show, as always, is restoration. We have an all-male audience with some women special in there. And what we do is talk one-on-one with men who uh have dealt with or are dealing with the father womb, with healing, with restoration, how to be a man in today's times, fatherhood, a bevy of issues that we talk about on this show. But our guest today, John Zell Anderson. Good to have you in, brother. How are you, man? I'm doing well.

SPEAKER_02 1:10

How about yourself?

SPEAKER_01 1:11

The pleasure's mine. I'm doing great, man. For those guys that are watching and listening for the very first time, thanks for making us part of your week. We're live on LinkedIn, YouTube, and Facebook, of course. Let us know how you enjoy the show. If you have a question for John Zell and myself, drop it in the comment section where you're watching this show right now. Thanks again for being a part of this incredible journey that we're on right now. Let's give us some conversation right

From Virginia To Therapist Life

SPEAKER_01 1:34

now. So, brother, good to have you here. Number one, uh, give us a little background about where you're from, how you got from where you were to where you are right now. I mean, some key factors and such. Go ahead, brother.

SPEAKER_02 1:45

Okay. Uh, so my name is John Zell Anderson. I uh am a licensed therapist. I've been a therapist for over a decade now. Uh I grew up in Southwest Virginia in uh Roanoke. Um to see where I started uh and where I'm at now. So I am the product of a uh of a white lady from Michigan and a uh a black man from Sierra Leone. Uh I grew up uh mixed race in Virginia, so identity was something that um was a little strange in that I was a black person raised in whiteness. Um and you know, sprinkling, abuse, neglect, uh, racism, bullying, all that uh jazz, and it makes for uh a tumultuous time of developing identity, but uh a lot of my um 20s was uh a period of unlearning, um, the miseducation that I kind of went through in those formative years, and um that was also where I started to develop into you know a therapist, a um a storyteller. Um, you know, my 20s was also when I um, you know, became a father and uh started my business and stuff like that. So through unlearning and working through the healing, which is ongoing, is how I got to where I'm at today.

SPEAKER_01 3:20

So it's a powerful story, man. I want to dig into it a little bit more. I realize that in all the conversation that we have throughout all of our shows, it feels like the people who are doing specific kind of work, it was birthed out of a situation, it was birthed out of a hurt or a void. Right now, where you are, brother, because I know that a lot of men are watching and listening, and they are literally and effectively working through things that they've been uh dealing with in the past, past wounds, past hurts, and the collection, like you said, abuse, things like that.

Boundaries And Sharing Your Story

SPEAKER_01 3:58

As a therapist, how do you avoid bringing your own issues into situations, especially when they're similar to what you've gone through? What's kind of a uh a fail-safe for you, kind of a uh, you know, a way to guard yourself from you know bringing your stuff or your baggage into the situation that you can't help somebody else with?

SPEAKER_02 4:18

Yeah. Well, there is, of course, ethics in being a therapist in that you don't want to project your stuff onto somebody else. But in my approach to being a therapist, like you see on the screen assist therapist storyteller, and I put like a line in between, they transcend, they, you know, uh, they're one in the same. Because what is coming to therapy if not sharing your story, right? Um, and so a way that, especially working with black men in particular, um we often can heal by resonating with someone else's story. So um, because I have been through a lot of things that the men that come to therapy with me have also experienced, it's not so much of like pretending that I'm this blank slate who hasn't been through anything. Uh, a way that one of my superpowers in being a therapist is that I'm a real human being first. I don't look at myself as like being above somebody else. So my story is one of the ways that I build rapport with my clients. So um, of course, I'm not gonna sit there and spend someone's session talking about myself, but if someone shares something, uh, one of the ways to like bridge that gap between to show that we're equal, uh, clients may assume, oh, well, you know, you probably never have to deal with this or or something like that. And then to be able to share a story, not to one up or play the trauma Olympics, but to show them that I'm a human too. I'll share a part of my story to um uh to build that connection to show, like uh, I do have some lived experiences that uh influence this. I I tell my clients all the time a lot of what I know and do as a therapist was not taught to me in a grad school. It was through real-world experience, either working with clients or having lived it myself. I I joke that I had about 22 years of mental health experience before I ever set foot in grad school. So um uh so I wouldn't say that I like completely shut off my own story and turn into a machine to be a therapist, but I also know boundaries of not making it about myself. If I'm gonna share something about myself, it's to uh propel the client forward. I always link it back to what it is that they're going through.

SPEAKER_03 6:45

So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:48

Okay. Wow. You mentioned something and it's it's it's pretty interesting. A couple of questions for me that I didn't plan to ask you, but that's that's what that's what makes the show so much fun. Uh when you're talking about being in the geographical area where you are, and you definitely reconcile black men, so I'm assuming that that that's a big part of your focus and the work that you're doing. What are you seeing that's a common issue without you know, of course, staying in the realm of confidentiality? What do you think is a common issue that you're seeing amongst men in your area that you're you're finding yourself dealing with and they're dealing with? If you can uh share that a little bit. Please do.

Why More Black Men Seek Therapy

SPEAKER_02 7:30

Yeah. I mean, the cool thing that I've noticed um really, especially since the era of COVID, like 2020, is because I opened my practice in 2019. Um, then COVID hit, and then we had that summer of 2020 that was crazy.

SPEAKER_01 7:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:55

Um black men are coming to therapy now more than I'm, you know, ever, which is cool because prior to that I had a my clientele wasn't as as many black people. Now I would say it is primarily. Um that so the good thing is that you know, black men are embracing therapy more, and demographically we're like kind of the last to embrace it. So that's a good thing. As far as like the challenges that black men are going through, um you know, things like identity, anxiety, um uh dealing with just the the matters of life, whether it be the economy, uh employment, um, you know, uh reckoning with maybe abuse or neglect or something that they've dealt with, relationships, um, parenting, uh, you know, racism, like uh a lot of these, a lot of the similar things that I've experienced as a human being, right? Um and the cool thing about being a therapist is that even though there are trends and things that are similar, every hour I get to see something different. Um, so there's similarities and there's like uh themes, but also every individual that I get to talk to, so I never get bored because every individual has a unique perspective and how things impact them. So that's a handful of things that folks are dealing with. Um I think relationships and identity and um you know the environments around us are definitely the most uh prominent right now.

SPEAKER_01 9:45

Okay, that's interesting

Abuse Neglect And Identity Confusion

SPEAKER_01 9:47

to know. Uh you rep you referenced uh some volatility in your in your upbringing. Uh hope you're okay with kind of getting into it.

SPEAKER_02 9:57

I'm quite literally an open book. So when people are like, oh, I'm an open book, I'm like, I'm I'm literally an open book. So whatever you want to ask me, I got you.

SPEAKER_01 10:06

Yes, sir. Thank you so much for being so transparent. I appreciate it, man. So, in regards to childhood abuse and neglect, those are the kind of things that a lot of men that I talk to in groups and in coaching spaces, that even in uh uh our round table on Thursday nights, we these things come out and I love for you without you know divulging too too much of what you share in your book, no spoiler alert, you guys gotta say that first. Uh, I look for you to kind of share about what uh you actually were seeing. I know your father and mother had uh ways they may have contributed to some of what you're talking about, but what happened and and how is it impacting you today if it is?

SPEAKER_02 10:43

Yeah. Um, so I mentioned earlier I was the product of you know, a West African and a white person, right? So mixed race, black, uh black raised in whiteness, but um the world will uh try to tell you who you are if you don't know who you are. And I think um, you know, as parents, we're we're the first uh influence on on children. So uh my parents didn't do that essential role of being like, this is who you are, you exist, um, and and here here let me give you the tools to walk in that, right? Uh because the father wasn't around. So the person that contributed to making you know me black uh wasn't there to, I mean, he was literally in the city, but he wasn't that involved, right? And then I'm dealing with uh the the concept of, and people think this is wild when I say it, but my first racists were my white caregivers, right? So the perspectives and the venom towards my black father being spoken about by these white people, and but I look exactly like him, and I'm black. So if you say all these things about black people, then what does that mean about me? And it's confusing. But then um add in the various types of abuse, um, physical, emotional, social, um, sexual, um neglect, um, poverty, um you know, those sorts of things, um it can it can mess you up. Uh and uh the the development of my identity could have been like uh well I'm gonna turn into the villain because this is what happened to me, or it could have been survival. And I'm thankful that my uh that internal voice or a sense of hope was more of like you can survive this, you can overcome this. Um and that yeah, remind me real quick again what the question was because I kind of got in the pocket.

SPEAKER_01 13:13

So you're doing you're doing fine. I kind of want to just understand what you experienced and how you're dealing with it today, because I understand it is talking about generational opinion, man. So I know to be saying that you can't just you can kind of white watch it and cover over it like it it's not happening, but it still has an impact. Ask me how I know this. So yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:40

Yeah. So thank you. Um, so the way I structure the book um is and my book is called Mixtape and Memoir for those who are listening. Um, but it I put it in four sections. I have Homeroom, Misseducation, Unlearning, and Graduation. And that's the book is based around a playlist, and I love the miseducation of Lauren Hill, so that's kind of a nod to the miseducation. But um think of what I just kind of gave an overview of as kind of that the homeroom and the miseducation. You have these characters, these these imperfect human beings who, you know, and then I'm here, right? Um, and so these things happen. And obviously the unlearning is kind of what I described in my 20s of like, you know, shedding the things that didn't serve me, kind of come, you know, coming into my own, figuring out who who am I gonna be despite what I've been through, and then kind of walking in that that freedom and that, you know, um what all of that that kind of comes towards the end. And it's not to say that this book ends in happily ever after. I'm only 33. So um, not to say like, oh, because who likes a book that's like, oh, and then he lived happily ever after? How how do I know? Right? Um, but you know, the the thing that I'm thankful for is that these things like the bad things don't define who I am. Um I have this belief that bad things happen, and I don't like when people say everything happens for a reason. Um, because then that gives credit to the people who harm you, is like, oh, well, this made you better or something. I don't like that. But because bad things happen, I will um I will take what is left behind from the bad things that happen, and I will find something useful from it. Um and I also don't stay in the bad things that happen. It's not to be revisionist history or denial, because you have to face that stuff. And that's a lot of what I do as a therapist. Like men have to come in and they have to face the bad things that have happened to heal. Pretending it didn't happen or covering it up doesn't heal you. But I can take things from what I've experienced it and it, whether it's something like um supporting someone who's going through that that situation now, or you know, telling a story, um and uh making something useful out of what is left behind. So it's kind of like what I said that transcendence between therapists and storyteller. These stories that people give me, the the stories that I tell, the stories I've experienced, we're all uh a series of stories. It's almost like I have this like dance that's happening there's good, there's bad, there's lived experiences, there's things that I've shed, there's all of this is like a mosaic of things that are going on. But in the end, I have this practice where I'm able to decompress and to let go of the things that aren't serving me and find ways to hopefully make a better impact and to live a more peaceful and joyful life for me and help other people on that journey versus staying down in the bad things. Um, and my story isn't just doom and gloom. Like um, I joke that my alter ego is a comedian, a DJ, a part-time assassin, and a librarian. So you're gonna get elements of obviously music. It's based around a playlist, it's called mixtape. Um, but you're gonna get my humor, you're gonna get the the stories, the books, the the things that um kind of anchor me. So um yeah, it's uh it's not just trauma, trauma, trauma beating you over the head. It's like you're gonna have like lighthearted, cringy, funny, um, heavy. And I I try to take care of the reader so that it's um it's an enjoyable experience. So some have described it like literary whiplash. It's like, oh, it's kind of like, you know, uh, oh, we're having a good time. Oh, that was funny, and then it's like boom, whoa, where did that come from? Like, and then you know, you have the music and the things to kind of ease you through it. So it's not a light book, but it's not constant, you know, beating you over the head either.

SPEAKER_01 18:17

So it's it's it's real life and and and and thoughtful perspective, man. So I definitely appreciate that, man. For those of you guys that are listening and not watching us, I got Johnzell's website up on the screen right now, www.johnzell z E L E dot co. Johnzell.co. So on the screen for those that are watching, but for listening.co. You can find his work and you can reach out to him and

A Grandmother’s Love Then Boundaries

SPEAKER_01 18:48

share your thoughts. Uh I would imagine you can uh send your question to him as well, hopefully. Um you you mentioned your uh uh the influence of your grandmother, but all the things that you went through, I I'd love to hear briefly how your grandmother was instrumental in who you become today.

SPEAKER_02 19:07

Yeah. So my grandmother uh in the book, uh, she didn't want me to use her real name. So in the book, her name is Miranda. Um and uh she is my mother's mom. So my maternal grandmother. And uh while I was going through a lot of the things in my childhood, um she sometimes seemed to be the only person that loved me. Um so like you know, my mom was volatile, my uh brother was abusive and angry. Um you know, the the people that my mom dated were kind of doing their own thing. Um and my experience as a child was very much like, and I was let known like you were a mistake, you were not wanted, right? Um and so uh and treated as such, kind of like stay, you know, be out of sight, out of mind, children are meant to be seen and not heard, that kind of thing. So my grandmother showed me that I was special to her, that that she loved me, that you know, it was almost like um that kind of nurturing and and softness that um a kid would hope to have from like a mother figure. Um, I was able to get that from my grandmother. And I think a lot of uh kids who especially grew up with like single parents, like um oftentimes the grandmothers like fill in the gap. Um so that I think that was a big part of like that hope that I said I had from a young age, not to just sit down in the the bad things, but to feel um like there was something more for me. Um, which because it's interesting, like I had a you know, another mixed-race brother who grew up in the same house as me, and we went very different paths. Like we grew up in the same environment, but I was like more hopeful and like wanting to have a better future, and he kind of went in the direction of you know, like falling into the circumstances that we're given, right? So um I think that having somebody that cares about you or takes time to spend time with you can really um be a big shift for you. Like if if someone does care about you or you think that things can get better, then you don't give up. So um, but like I said, my story is kind of dynamic in that like you think it's going one way and then it'll switch up on you. So grandma at one point in the story becomes the op. Like she has her own wounds, and you know, uh uh it becomes the the person inflicting wounds. So um for a good period of time, I gave Me hope, and then as I started to do the unlearning, it was like, okay, I have to distance myself because she's a human too, right? Um, and so, but that's that's our story, that's our our lives. Like, no one is perfect all the time. So um, but yeah, I I I would still say that even as an adult who I've had to like, you know, put boundaries with some of these problematic people. Um uh my maternal grandmother is probably still like my closest uh family member from my family of origin.

SPEAKER_01 22:34

So that's awesome, man. I want to we gotta have time for a couple more questions. I want to try to spend a little time talking about the impact of the book. The name of the book, you guys that are watching and listening is Mixtape, a memoir. John Zell Anderson. Uh, you did something that I want to get you to talk about briefly with me.

West Africa Trips And Finding Roots

SPEAKER_01 22:54

Uh I had a situation, some generational stuff as well, with a father who I didn't use the word disengaged. That's that's too soft to describe what what mine was. But it was uh a situation where I essentially most people who watch my show who know uh my history, my background, watch any of my shows, and heard me tell a story. I chased him across the country and he was he was not standing still, he was moving away as far away as possible. I was in my hometown of New York City. So I chased him across the country to try to find uh validation. Where did senior voice come from? Where did this stuff come from? Where does ministry gift come from? I was trying to chase them to get answers for my life. You went on a life-changing trip to find routes that you I guess in the in the effort to connect, to understand, to comprehend something. If you don't mind sharing briefly about that trip that you took and how life-changing it was, can you do that?

SPEAKER_02 23:53

Yeah. So um I've actually taken three trips to West Africa. So yeah, the first, the one that I talk about in the book is the first time I went to West Africa. I went to Dhana. And I mentioned earlier my father is an immigrant from Freetown Sierra Leone, West Africa. And I chose when I went to the continent, I did it on my own terms because I wasn't doing it from a place of, okay, I have this relationship with my father and I know where to go or where to connect. I I was, you know, my whole experience of growing up was kind of like figure it out on your own without a roadmap, right? So, but I I felt drawn to West Africa because I knew that that is kind of where it started. So in connecting with Ghana, um it felt like I was being welcomed home and being in Sub-Saharan Africa. Um, you know, like one of the things you'll see a lot is uh the word aquaba, which means welcome, um, and one of the languages there. And it really did feel welcoming. It really felt like, you know, uh you step off the plane and that like dry heat hits you in the face, and it's just like wow. Um and it uh I really enjoyed that. And recently, um talking about like, you know, life changing. I mean, in December, I took my daughter to West Africa with me, which we went to Sierra, I went to Sierra Leone for the first time. So we actually went to the place, Freetown, where my father immigrated from. And, you know, the and it was after I got separated last year. So it was like the first time I took my daughter with me to West Africa. And so it was really special because, mind you, you know, it's like the first time I'm uh doing this with my child, bringing her to the, you know, my father never took me to West Africa, but I'm taking my child there. And it was her sixth birthday while we were in three towns here, Leone. So it's kind of like my child doesn't have to have that experience of not knowing where she comes from because I'm bringing her here early on, you know. Um, so from you know, that first trip where it's like I don't know where my roots are, to that third time around, is like I'm showing my child where her roots are. So, in a way of giving to my own child and showing her where her roots are, is somehow healing parts of me that weren't given that uh experience um from my own parents. So um, yeah, West Africa is very special to me. I'm still processing and working through all that those experiences have brought me for sure.

Connection Reciprocity And Senkofa

SPEAKER_01 26:55

So you mentioned that your uh book was not uh kind of like a hard stop yet. It's you're still kind of kind of in process. Is there any big takeaway, especially for the men that are watching and listening today, who may have fancied themselves as having some great childhoods and may not understand, or some that are in the same spot like you, or maybe even worse, is there a takeaway that you got from the experience of going to West Africa? You said three times. I don't know which one was the one that was the defining moment or not, but which is it is there a takeaway that you you had that you could share that might encourage them that you got in that experience to kind of find your roots and find yourself in that space?

SPEAKER_02 27:40

I'd say that the the overall takeaway, whether it be from my travels to Africa, the things I've shared here, or even my book, is that human we are wired for connection. Um we don't exist without each other, right? So if we're wired for connection, um that means that when we don't have reciprocity in our connections, something's gonna go wrong. Um, you know, unreciprocated relationships will hurt us because they're not sustainable, right? And for me, going to West Africa, it was connection with something bigger than just me. Um, it was culture, it was identity, it was um history, um, it was legacy, it was, you know, even showing my own child something, right? Um, and what I'll say is a takeaway that I kind of talk about in the book is there's this um symbol in uh the adinkra symbols in uh Ghana, it's called Senkofa, which means to go back and get it. Um so to go back and get something that was left behind. And um all of us, I think, to answer your question, we all have something that is still worth exploring that we can go back and get. Um but it does require some sometimes uh sacrifice or um courage, bravery to do that. Um but oftentimes doing that work will also be the key to our healing. Hope that hopefully that made sense.

SPEAKER_01 29:29

No, it definitely made sense, man.

Self-Kindness And Where To Find Him

SPEAKER_01 29:33

It just sounds like you're on a journey, man. That's what that's what it sounds like. And I I love hearing that because even though as somebody who grew up uh especially back in New York City, there were a lot of things to do, but then there were a lot of things I needed to stay away from. I spent a lot of time in books and in front of TV steps a lot of times. And the words I hated to see on TV, especially for sure. I love watching those three words I hated seeing them with a passion uh to be continued. I hated it. I had to wait for a whole week to find out what happened. I I still hate those words to this day, but I know it's TV, it's it is what it is, but I just hate it. But we we're in a place where uh we're in a continual process, man. We're growing and it's to be continued. I'm talking to you right now. I may talk to you at the end of the month, a few months from now, and guess what? Got a different layer to the story. You learn something else about you, you've grown to a certain degree, man. So I just want to say thank you, man, for being here and sharing your story and being so transparent. It's clear that you're not in survival mode anymore, but you're growing for answers and you're working on bettering yourself, man. So that's powerful to me. I hope every man that's watching and listening can appreciate that. Uh do this for me, Johnson. If you don't mind, before we close out today, do two things for me. One, let folks know where they can find you in your work. And I'll put the uh WhatsApp on the screen. I'll bring it back up again in a moment for those that are watching. If you listen to kind of uh shout it out for them, and then before we close out, just give some encouragement to the men that are watching today. Yeah, I know they all from different places and different, they got different levels they're dealing with, but if you don't mind doing both me right now, that'd be great. Thank you. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 31:16

Okay. Well, I'll start with the encouragement. Um, one of the things, and this is not something that I say just because I'm a therapist, but I end every one of my therapy sessions with clients with the following statement. I tell my clients, be kind to yourself, and I'll do the same. Um, self-kindness is it sounds simple, it sounds pithy, but it's also the simplest yet most challenging thing a person can do because it's not just a one and done thing. You have to constantly, every minute, every hour, every day, choosing self-kindness, right? Um, and that practice will hopefully lead you to peace, joy, and freedom. That's what I'm pursuing in life these days. Um, so when I tell my clients, hey, be kind to yourself and I'll do the same, it's also a reminder to me because, like I told you, I don't been through some things, right? And still going through things, right? So when I tell them, hey, you be kind to yourself and I'll do the same, I will never tell someone to do something that I won't do myself. So then it's my own reminder, hey, Johnzell, be nice to you as well. So that's my encouragement. Um, as far as where you can find me, uh, mixtaping memoir is available at johnzell.co. It's on the screen there. Um on my website, um, you will see it's available in hardcover, paperback, uh, ebook. Uh it's also available as an audiobook nearby narrated by me. Um, so all of those links are available, like your Amazon, your Barnes Noblebookshop.org, uh, Audible, all of that. That's available at johnzell.co. But if you want to just look it up at your favorite online bookstore, um, mixtape and memoir, Johnzell Anderson, you should be able to find it. It's widely distributed. Um, thanks in advance for your support. Um, also, uh, if you want to connect with me, I'm on Instagram at Johnzell underscore. So the same spelling is J-O-H-N-Z-Like Zebra E-L-L-E underscore. So um you can uh a lot of what I do on there, I uh I read like a hundred books a year or more. So uh I review the books that I read. Um you'll see cute pictures of what I'm reading to my daughter, um, and little things about like what I'm writing and working on. So that's a good way to stay in touch with me um and connect with me there. So johnzell.co for the book um and at johnzell underscore on Instagram is where you can keep up with me.

SPEAKER_01 33:46

Man, powerful story, brother. Uh just spoiler alert, you're gonna be on some of other of our other four shows. So I'm excited to uh about continuing the conversation and bringing additional layers because I know there's more there. You guys watching and listening, this is the men's roundtable series interview spotlight. Talking about trauma, talking about identity, talking about the whole man. At the end of the day, restoration is always the goal. John Zell, thanks for being here, brother. Thank you for having me. God bless you, your family. Uh it's been a privilege, man. Thanks for being here.

SPEAKER_03 34:21

Thank you.

Final Thanks And Wrap Up

SPEAKER_01 34:22

Thanks for watching the Mr. Round Table Series interview spotlight. That's John Zell. Author extraordinaire and father extraordinaire. I'm Mr. U. Have a fantastic day.