MRTS Spotlight with David Helfand: Why Marriages Break Down - Bringing Couples Back From the Edge

A marriage doesn’t usually end because two people suddenly stop caring. It ends because the relationship becomes the place where stress, resentment, and shutdown live, and neither person knows how to get regulated enough to reach the love that’s still there. We sit down with licensed psychologist Dr. David Helfand, a marriage retreat specialist with a neuroscience background, to talk about what actually drives couples to the brink and what helps them pull back.

We unpack the difference between a peaceful marriage and a happy one, including how “keeping the peace” can quietly turn into fawning, avoidance, and a slow loss of intimacy. Dr. David also challenges the lazy stereotype that men only want sex by describing how many men’s needs shift with age toward emotional connection, feeling wanted, and being pursued. When that truth stays unspoken, couples can slip into sexless marriage patterns, embarrassment, and blame that never touches the real issue.

From there, we get practical about why couples therapy often fails when conflict triggers fight or flight and the frontal lobe goes offline. Dr. David explains regulation and co-regulation, why “compatibility” is often a skills problem, and how parenting stress and the pandemic intensified the pressure by removing escapism and forcing couples to face what they’d been avoiding. He also shares a clear framework for rebuilding: communication, regulation, prioritization, and intimacy, plus how an intensive marriage retreat differs from traditional weekly therapy.

If you care about divorce prevention, healthier conflict, and rebuilding emotional intimacy, listen through and then share this with someone who needs hope. Subscribe, leave a review, and tell us what topic you want next: what’s the hardest conversation in your relationship right now?

Transcript

Welcome, Audience, And The Big Question

SPEAKER_01 0:36

Everybody, welcome back to the men's round table interview spotlight. I'm your host, Mr. U. We are excited about the topic for today. We're talking about why marriages break down, how you bring couples back from the edge. Before we get our guests on, I want to share a few pieces of information with you. Of course, if you're watching right now, we are live, Facebook, YouTube, LinkedIn. We'll have the audio platform up sometime today or sometime tomorrow. But thanks again for watching and listening, making us a part of your week. We really appreciate it. If you haven't heard of us before, our men's roundtable series is one of our most popular series on our brand. Every Thursday night at 7 p.m. EST, a bunch of men from around the country, husbands, fathers, brothers, and sons are in a safe space. So we're just talking about issues that are germane to men specifically. It's always a rousing conversation. This is just a one-on-one spotlight with a husband, father, brother, or son who has a story to tell and wants to share their perspective on what it means to be a man in this day and time. It's always very, very interesting. If you want to jump in and drop a comment or question for our guest or myself, by all means, whether you're watching this video, this episode right now, drop it in the comment section. Happy to answer those questions on air. As long as they make sense, as long as it remains to the conversation, we'll definitely jump into it. If not, it's not going to happen for you. But thanks again for making us a part of your week. We're excited about our guest today, licensed psychologists who specializes in marriage retreats, brain mapping, and neurofeedback. Dr. David Helfin is in the house. Dr. David, how are you, man?

SPEAKER_02 2:08

Thank you, you. I'm excited to be here. And uh I love the enthusiasm with this whole intro and process and get dive into the men's group here. I'm excited.

SPEAKER_01 2:18

Absolutely. And that music that you guys heard is a good friend of ours who named Javier Malabe. He is the owner and founder of the Sasquatch Chronicles. The man is a graphic artist extraordinaire. He also does music. So that theme music was donated to our uh show from Javier. So absolutely exciting to have that music going. And it's just reminds me of the collaboration that we have in this podcast and community. So excited about this. But Dr. David, you got so much background in uh in just neurology and brain and brain stuff and and marriage. I want to get into some of that stuff, man. So before we do that stuff, I'd love to always have a little bit of context. Tell us a little bit about Dr.

Meet Dr. David Helfin

SPEAKER_01 3:00

David. Who are you as a young person? How do you get from that stage to where you are right now doing what you're doing? Go ahead and jump in, man.

SPEAKER_02 3:06

Sure. So I think I'll Tarantino it a little bit here. So my specialty right now, uh, I focus on marriage retreats. I work with people three or four days intensively, typically on the edge of divorce. They kind of see me as a final step to try to figure out if they're going to stay together or not. And I came to that through the world of neuroscience. So when I was in a kid, when I was a kid, I thought that if you could treat the brain, you could fix pretty much everything. And what I discovered later in my career is that you can't just treat the brain because the brain's an individual. And sometimes you have to treat the system. And the system involves marriages, it involves uh your family, it involves your career, maybe some existential cultural or societal, you know, considerations. I chose to go the marital route because I can't do everything. But um uh, you know, I I can tell you, like, I was working with someone who had trouble sleeping, and um, long story short, it turned out that they didn't have insomnia, they just hated their spouse. And I was like, Well, that's why you can't sleep at night. You're laying next to someone that you don't appreciate. And none of my techniques for insomnia were working, and that was that was kind of my foyer into like, all right, I need to expand my view a little bit here. And then I just I fell in love with couples' work and have been doing it ever since.

SPEAKER_01 4:25

Wow, wow. I love what you said that divorce is not an option, and because and your work is geared towards helping people with that. I love that. That that's that's pretty awesome to me. A lot of the people who are probably watching our show generally are men, it even happens on the men's roundtable series on Thursday nights. We have women that are in the comments section, they chime in, they tell their uh significant others, their husbands or fathers or brothers, or even their sons about our show. So we love to get feedback from them as well. They're that they're always included, always invited. But we only have men on the show. It's geared toward that audience. So that's what we do. That but I love from the perspective we talked about offline. I want to definitely get into some of that stuff while we have the time that we have today. You were talking about how no one's ever taught how to have a happy marriage. You know, I it's not really a pushback, but I feel like people from my era, for my era, I think that they have kind of been taught how to do that, but it's not, it wasn't, it wasn't good teaching. I'll put it like this a lot of a lot of times it usually meant uh the husband caving in to a request or demand just to keep the peace. Or maybe, you know what, I had a long day at work. I don't feel like arguing, so yes to whatever you want, you know, the kind of blank check mentality. But what do you think you see in there when you're talking about how what it's like to not be taught how to have a happy marriage? What kind of uh perspectives do you have on that? What have you learned?

SPEAKER_02 5:56

Well, I think there's a difference between a peaceful marriage and a happy marriage, right? I mean, what you're just what you're describing is typically called fawning. So people that might be familiar with the fight or flight response, fight or flight is actually extended. It's fight, flight, freeze, fawn, fib, tend and befriend. Tend and befriend is a different feminist critique of fight or flight, but um fawning is just giving in to a potential threat. Like I come home, I don't want to have the argument, yeah, honey, you're right. I love you, you're amazing, you're always the best. I'm gonna shut up and go with it, right? Um, not always exactly in those words, but not that far off sometimes. And you know, people might be surprised to know that in sexless marriages, in most cases, it's actually the male that's withdrawn sexually from the relationship. And part of the reason for that is that as men so as men approach about 40 or 50 years old, their arousal template is totally different. And I'm in my early 40s, so I can start to see this coming. I see pieces of it, but you know, men that are younger typically are interested in um, you know, visual stimulation and they'll kind of like they want to hook up, you know, that kind of stuff. Whereas men that are 40, 50, and older need an emotional connection. And you know, what I often tell folks is if you're treating your genitals like you're 20 years old, but you're in your 50s, it doesn't work the same way anymore. And yeah, and this is one of the reasons that we see that men that are older have erectile dysfunction issues, um, that they have relationship issues, because it's really embarrassing for a lot of men to speak up and say, Hey, I want to feel wanted. Like, I want to feel like you want to be around me, that you like kissing me. I don't want to always be the one initiating, like I want to be kind of sought after too. That's a really freaking awkward thing for most men to actually admit to.

SPEAKER_01 7:50

No, no doubt. I think it's really rare to hear that. I mean, I've been on Earth for quite a while now. Most folk that know me know that what that number is, if not what my face appears that it is, it's a lot longer than that. And I rarely have ever heard that. I really ever heard of men wanting to be uh thought of in that way until we talk about the round table. Then I then I hear these things like, why this is the first time I ever heard men, but it's obviously a universal situation, a lot more pervasive than I thought, which is a good thing. But I love that. Uh you were talking about how men want to have that kind of uh respect given to them, that kind of honor given to them. I think that's fair. I think a lot of people think that men just want to have sex. Men just want to be fair, men just want to be able to have their golf day, men just want to be just alone and work on their bikes. There's just so much

Peaceful Vs Happy And Men’s Needs

SPEAKER_01 8:45

more to us than that. Uh and this show alone the round table, I'm gonna keep talking about it because these two things are together and they and they are basically brother and sister. And they really have begun to open the eyes of people who think men would not, you know, are not complex beings who have feelings and emotions and and a value system, and they want things too. They want more than just a son of ice, and they they want more than just a title father. They want more than just, you know, an occasional uh romantic encounter. They want to have more than that. And you you get into that stuff. You talk about how you, I think you speak to your parents were couples therapists. I'd love to know as a man, how how do you think that was good for you? No disrespect to your parents, of course. If there's something bad going on there, you have to share it, but just from the perspective of a man, how was that a good thing if you'd have couple parents that were couple therapy?

SPEAKER_02 9:42

Well, my dad's a uh my dad's a certified sex therapist, although he just they just retired, so I say is, but they just retired. Um, as you can imagine, sex talk that I got in high school was a lot different than probably what most people got.

SPEAKER_01 9:56

And um, so the I wasn't thinking about that when I asked you.

SPEAKER_02 10:01

Uh oh the amount of data and the the technical approach of relationships. I mean, like my dad gave a speech at my wedding that was like, you know, you could tell he had a PhD in this stuff, you know. So so that that was very different. And I think I've learned sort of the technical aspects of relationships and some of the science behind connection and attraction and uh infatuation and all these different, you know, um stages of relationships. I also, to be honest, and I'm sorry, mom and dad, I also learned about hypocrisy because you know they would be talking about what a relationship is, and then I would go, but you guys don't follow this. And it was an interesting experience to realize that yes, there are like rules and guidance for every couple, but also every couple's different, you know. What I like to tell the couples I work with is listen, I'm gonna teach you how to play scales. Every good musician knows scales, but no music, no musician plays scales when they get up and perform, they use that to inform what they do, and so you're gonna take what I'm teaching you, and you're gonna play jazz and rock and blues and country and whatever you do, but you need the foundation before you can get up and do that performance.

SPEAKER_01 11:23

Wow, that makes a lot of sense. I can't even imagine what that first talk was like for you as a child. Yeah, um, I don't know what time to get in the world. A lot of uh science. Oh wow, wow. But from your standpoint, Dr. David, do you feel like you had you walked away with a key, perhaps? Maybe a uh I won't go for say a golden ticket, but just you know, a key that the other kids, other young men didn't have because your parents were therapists and operated operated in that function. Do you have something that took you further than a lot of men your age went? Did that make sense?

SPEAKER_02 12:07

Yeah, I would love to say yes to that. Um no. I I think I think what I realized is that in my 20s, I knew everything. In my 30s, I realized I knew nothing. And now in my 40s, I I know what I know and what I don't know and what I need to learn. And I don't know what the will be yet, but that's kind of how I see it, you know. And it's interesting, like I I probably made the same relationship mistakes. If anything, I was maybe cocky or thinking I wasn't gonna make the mistakes in my 20s. Um, but you know, we've all done bad relationships, we've all had bad hookups. You know, I I think sometimes you have to make those mistakes to learn. And if I were to yeah, I just think sometimes I need you need to make those mistakes to really learn. You know, just hearing the advice from someone, especially if it's your parents, is not sufficient to really get the knowledge you need.

SPEAKER_01 13:09

Absolutely. It sounds like you have a lot because what I understand, couples therapy is like 90% of your business. So I'd love to hear it. And this is uh you can kind of give me the the viewpoint of a typical client. No names are required, but it's just a typical client. What do they look for from you from you before they decide uh to allow you to to work with them? Because I know a lot of people want they want to see something on paper, they want to see a degree, they want to see years of experience in the even years of marriage. What does a typical client want to see from you as a couples therapist before they decide to sign off with you?

SPEAKER_02 13:49

I think it's simpler than that. I think people just want to know that I can actually help, right? Like they're they're reaching out to me to say, okay, we have a problem, we're in pain. You know, usually they're considering divorce because they haven't been happy for a very long time. Maybe they've stayed together because, you know, they're doing it for the kids, which I have a lot of feelings about. Um, maybe because they're they have a little bit of hope, right? They're like, okay, it's not, you know, I still love you. Like, I think we could make this work, but it's been 10 years, 20 years, and and it's just not working for us. And so they're calling me in pain. And before they sign up, usually most couples want to speak to me first so that they can feel confident that I can actually help them. And um, you know, I have a whole spiel that I go through, and I actually am publishing a paper later this year. Um, it's at the journal right now, and hopefully it'll get going out in the press pretty soon. But I have an 88.5% success rate at helping couples reconcile. And um, you know, in in my experience, nobody wants to get divorced. They're just they're in pain and they don't feel hopeful. And so, you know, to the first question that you asked about like, you know, well, like are how are couples taught how to be married, or do some of the old lessons actually maybe apply? Um, there's a lot of stuff that gets in the way. And this is where I bring in the neuroscience. I could teach you every skill and you could perform it expertly in the laboratory setting. But the moment your wife or your husband, for that matter, the moment someone says something that just gets under your skin and brings up that that, like, oh, you know, response, that fight or flight response, your frontal lobe goes offline and you're looking at your partner like they're a wild animal who could potentially hurt you, and you're no longer you're no longer loving spouses. So a lot of what I teach is regulation skills. How do you stay in a space where you can still access your frontal lobe and all that is still accessible to you to apply the skills you're learning? How do you co-regulate with each other? And how do you give each other some grace? You know, it's interesting. The research shows that really happy couples are getting about 80% of it right. 80% of their sexual encounters are good, 80% of their communication is good, 80% of their there's 80% agreement. So I like to tell people like you're shooting for a B minus. And for a lot of folks, that's like, oh my god, a B minus. Like they can't even imagine that. But like, that's really the goal.

SPEAKER_01 16:29

I love that, man. So I think I read that you started helping folks because around the pandemic around 2020, one of the worst talents in our world and our world and nation's history. Tell me what you heard. Of course, being as general as possible, but what you heard during that time that said, you know what, this is a cry for help here. This is we need therapy. Why why was that time uh so significant in the need that you heard for couples therapy?

SPEAKER_02 17:03

Yeah. So, I mean, I worked with couples before that, but a large part of my business at that time was also brain training and neurofeedback. And in the pandemic, when we could no longer put hands on people and you know, hook up electrodes and all that, it all went to couples therapy, and everyone was having relationship issues at the time. So I had a with my wife that like there's gonna either be a lot of divorces or a lot of babies after the pandemic. And I actually think both were true if you look at the uh the data afterwards. Um, you know, in my experience, a lot of people are managing their relationship through escapism. So, you know, you mentioned before about like men that go and work on their car or maybe they put hours into their business. I think as as human beings, but particularly

The Brain In Conflict And Regulation

SPEAKER_02 17:50

as men, we want to do things that we feel good at and then we get with feedback that like we're doing a good job and we feel a sense of mastery. And if your relationship is failing, but you're a really good mechanic, well, it's sort of natural to say, okay, this is challenging and anything I say seems to make it worse. But I know that I could go rebuild that engine, or I could go build a bookshelf, or I could go mow the lawn, or I could do something that I know I'm good at and get some sense of reward and purpose. And in the pandemic, everyone got pushed together. And if you'd been avoiding your spouse, good luck.

SPEAKER_01 18:31

So, was that the reason why there was so much of a influence therapy, or was it something else that was going on that was pandemic related?

SPEAKER_02 18:40

I think it was a couple things. I mean, I do think that putting forcing everyone to be together, to be in lockdown together is a big part of it. Because if you've been avoiding parts of your relationship, you no longer could. I think the pandemic also created a lot of other stress. You know, the research shows that um three major life events 90% of people get anxious or depressed. So, you know, if you uh if your job is in question because of the pandemic, if your kids aren't in school and now you're having to be the primary, you know, child care provider, the relationship is already on the rocks. That suggests that 90% of people in that situation are gonna have major mental health concerns. And that was like most of us at that point.

SPEAKER_01 19:24

Well, that makes a lot of sense. That makes a lot of sense. You made a reference to uh people who are on the verge of divorce, and you mentioned about them doing it for the kids. Not an uncommon response. We've seen it many times, and then when the kids are gone, you got two strangers in the household, and you know what generally might come next. What were your feelings on that that you wanted to share earlier?

SPEAKER_02 19:45

Well, you're calling me out. I love it. So no, it's great. I know you're listening to now. I I know it. Um, so here's the thing I think I often hear from couples that they they want to do right by their kids, and so they stay married for the kids. The truth is that divorce does not screw up kids, parents screw up kids.

SPEAKER_01 20:12

That explain that one, please.

SPEAKER_02 20:14

If you are showing your your children that a healthy marriage, because remember, all kids look for their parents for a model of a relationship. Now, at some point as they get older, they might say, Okay, I don't want what mom and dad have, or they might say, Yeah, that was a good example. That that makes sense, I do want that. But if you're showing them that marriage is two people coexisting, but they don't like each other, that's not a particularly good model for what a marriage or a relationship is.

SPEAKER_01 20:45

Absolutely. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 20:46

Now, the flip side of that is if you just say, you know what, I don't care about the kids and I'm not happy with you and I'm out of here, that's not good either. You know, I think the idea of staying together with the kids to try to make it work makes sense. My issue with that, though, is that if you are so unhappy that you're just waiting until they're 18 and out of the house, that's not good either. If it's if it's if the kids are motivating you to try to do better and work on the marriage, I'm all for that. If it's if it's convincing you just to bear and grin it, that's why I think we get into a lot of other issues.

SPEAKER_01 21:23

Copy that. That makes a lot of sense. What where does I know that this is a this could be a tough one, where does incompatibility lie in all of this? If you're not if you're not compatible, the marriage has no hope. What are your thoughts on that and incompatibility just in general?

SPEAKER_02 21:43

I think a lot of couples come to me asking or concerned about compatibility. And in most it in most cases, it's not an issue of compatibility, it's an issue of skills. And what I mean by that is like compatibility is really fundamental. Like you want kids, and I don't want kids. You can't compromise. That's an incompatibility. You know, you want to live in the house you grew up in, and I want to go buy a place in the mountains and live in a little cottage out of the middle of nowhere. That's an incompatibility. Um, you know, you want to go out drinking with your friends, and I'm not comfortable with that, right? Like those sorts of things could be an incompatibility. Um, the way you spend your social life. I don't mean out like blackout drinking, I just mean like having fun, going out with friends, okay? Like introverted, sort of, you know, dynamic. Those are compatibility issues. Most of the time, what people come in with is they have poor communication, they're getting under each other's skin, there's resentment that's built up. Um, there's an issue of like showing your partner that your the marriage matters to you. Um, and there's issues with um intimacy across the spectrum. Chances are that with most couples, there was a time in your relationship where you did get along, right? There, most people decide to commit to each other because they had hope, right? There was chemistry, they kind of flowed with each other. Um, but then at some point that changes. So that's not a compatibility issue. That's about like you haven't stayed in sync with each other, maybe because you haven't communicated, you haven't kept the intimacy up. You know, there's other factors at play. Kids, you know, kids are stressful. So, you know, the most common time for divorce is two years and seven years into marriage. It's not a coincidence that that's when people have young kids.

SPEAKER_01 23:33

Oh wow. I think we need to move on past that when I don't think we have the time to touch it. But I want to ask you this question just because of your background and what you do. I'm pretty sure that I know that I have some listeners who are probably thinking the same thing that I'm getting ready to ask you right now. But even if they don't, I'm as a host, I'm interested in this. What do fights with your spouse look like based on what you know? Your uh your abilities in the couple's therapy realm. What does a disagreement on fight look like with you and your spouse? And that I don't mean detail, I just mean how do you handle it and approach it that may be different from the rest of us who don't have the background you have.

SPEAKER_02 24:15

Yeah, you want to know like what weight boxing gloves we pull out and that kind of stuff?

SPEAKER_01 24:19

No, I'm not saying all of that.

SPEAKER_02 24:24

So here's the deal again, every relationship is a little bit different. You have to find a style that works for you. Um I'm somebody that will just fight, and I learned that I can't do that in a relationship, and I learned that before I met my wife. And so my style that works for me is to say, I'm really mad about this, or I'm really anxious about this, or whatever the emotion is. And I need some time to like figure it out how to put it to words. And so sometimes I write her a letter. Sometimes we, you know, sit sit later at night and kind of let me talk it through and all that. But I'm someone who like my instinct is to fight, and I need to take some time to really process what's going on with me so that I can intelligibly communicate it. Um, my wife, on the other hand, is someone that just gets emotional, she'll just cry, she'll just express emotion. And so I've learned that it's not a courtroom, right? I'm not trying to justify myself, back myself up. Like, chances are whatever she's feeling was a mistake that I made. And if I can accept that, like, okay, I made a mistake and now let me be part of the solution, not justify the problem, then that goes a really long way. And by the way, I'm saying this to you after over 10 years of marriage. If you had asked me two years, then it'd probably be a very different answer.

SPEAKER_01 25:50

So you bet you bet you bet it would be. Same for me. We're going into year 30

Pandemic Pressure, Kids, And Compatibility

SPEAKER_01 25:55

this year, so the answers are totally different for sure. Uh, I got like five more questions. I mean, you your background and your insights are so interesting, I can't let them leave them on the table. I want to try to get these five questions in before we have to uh uh hold out the show today. So we'll do the do the best we can with this. But uh you mentioned about the uh the the stress of you know of having young children, and you and I had an offline conversation about the educational system and the mixed messages. Tell me how that plays into what you deal with and what you see, or just how it flies with you personally, or a little bit of both. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 26:36

You know, I think the best example of this is the uh stories that my parents told me when I was a kid, and then what I see now with my son. So when I was a kid, um apparently they they couldn't put me down for nap time, and I was just too energetic. And so they they you know, they called my parents and were like, hey, David won't go down for his nap. And they were like, Okay, open the door, let him do laps around the playground and just sit on a bench and read a book. Like he's good, just let him run, you know. And and that totally worked. That totally worked, and now what I see is there's like this there's this push to to harness the energy of my son. There's a push to like he's gotta sit and learn in this way or follow this structure and rules. And you know, he we had some discussion recently about his behavior at school. And I told my wife, if I were him at his age in this environment, I would have been in serious trouble too. Because there's so many more rules, there's so much emphasis on safety and and structure, and and some of that I think is positive. You want our kids to be safe. Some of it though feels like, listen, if he if he falls and scrapes a knee, like that's part of growing up, you know. Like if he you know grabs the dead branch on a tree and gets the wind knocked out of him, I'll be there to pick him up. But like, I can't prevent all the ill will from happening to you know this little boy. Um, and I think that it's well, I guess I'll answer it that way. I was gonna go to a totally different direction, so no, that's good.

SPEAKER_01 28:20

Well, that's that's totally fine. The biggest lesson you learn as a husband to date.

SPEAKER_02 28:26

Ooh. Um honestly, I think it's that emotions should be welcomed. I spent a long time, and I still struggle with this, that some emotions just don't feel good. But that the negative, the unpleasant emotions are what build the greatest intimacy when they're shared in the right way.

SPEAKER_01 28:56

I like it. I like it. From your experience doing couples therapy, I'm pretty sure you've seen some commonalities in the couples you talk to. What would you say were the most difficult issue that you think couples are facing? Of course, we're just speaking in generalities.

SPEAKER_02 29:18

You know, I think communication across the board is a struggle for so many people. And part of what I see is both partners often feel an urgency that their stuff is the most important. Um and there's a lot of blaming. You know, well, if you could only listen to me better, if you could give me what I need, if you could make me feel whatever. And what I tell folks is listen, you both contribute to the state of your marriage. And you might be right that in one given moment one person is more at fault than the other, but communicating in that way is only gonna worsen the issue. So if you can both own your shit and make some effort to change, that's gonna create a synergy where then the marriage is absolutely incredible.

SPEAKER_01 30:16

How do you convince this? Is just a side, this is an extra question that I'm I'm adding in really quickly, so answer it as briefly as you can. But how do you get somebody who believes that their uh take, if you will, or their viewpoint is more important than the other person they're in a relationship with? How do you get them off of that ledge? Because I'm that sounds like a really hard sale to get them to change their mind that they are not the most important, but you guys together.

SPEAKER_02 30:44

Yeah, you get it. There's a couple different there's a couple different ways to do it. I think it depends on exactly what you're dealing with. You know, if you're really like far down the narcissism spectrum, that's a whole other category. If it's more about like trauma, trauma's a whole other category, right? So I'm gonna speak sort of in the middle here, but there are answers to the to the edges and the extremes as well. I think one of the one of the best questions is um, you know, how would you how would you feel right now if you were your spouse? So like I'm sitting there blaming you for something, calling you out on something. How would you feel if you're a spouse? And you know, the other question is what do you want the outcome of this conversation to be? I really I use that one a lot because a lot of times someone will say, Well, I want them to see my point of view. Okay, you want them to see your point of view. I totally get that. Calling them an asshole, though, is not going to help them see your point of view. Like, if you want to invite someone into the conversation, it's got to be the right invitation.

Fighting Fair, Four Pillars, Retreats

SPEAKER_01 31:41

Fair enough. That makes sense, man. Totally makes sense. All right, last couple of questions for sure, and then I'm gonna let you get back to the rest of your day. All right, so you mentioned about a happy and a peaceful marriage. You referenced that a little earlier on in the show. What would you say are the standards for that kind of marriage? What do you think has to be in place to make that desired outcome for a happy, peaceful marriage happen?

unknown 32:06

Go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 32:07

I mean, the good news is that there's a lot of research on what makes marriages work. And when I look at all of it, I break it into four categories. So it's about communication, regulation, prioritization, and intimacy. And uh, you know, I could define those a little bit further if you like, but those are really the four. That's what I look at. That's what I assess for couples, that's what we work on during the retreat programs, and that's what the homework is focused on afterwards, too.

SPEAKER_01 32:36

Okay. Speaking of, I want to ask you about the retreats as well. Uh, after you answer this question, love for you to let people know where they can find your work. So they can find retreats, find your therapy work, or answer or ask you any questions they may have. So, last question for me, Dr. David. What's the difference between a marriage retreat and what we might call traditional therapy? Because I know that I I've seen it played out on sitcoms so more times, especially in the 80s, more times than I can count. People go to marriage retreats and supposed to fix whatever's wrong by putting two people who hate each other in the same box in a five by five, they're gonna come out better. I don't understand that mindset. So tell me what what's the difference between a marriage retreat and what we might call or view as traditional therapy. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 33:25

So, a marriage retreat is really an intensive version of therapy where you're doing like a year of therapy over three or four days, and the multi-hour format allows you to build momentum. You know, a lot of what I hear from couples is that in a 45-minute appointment, they're really only doing like a half hour of therapy because you got the warm-up and the cooldown by the end. And then, you know, doing these little bits of therapy, it's you know, it's like just snacking. At some point, you want a meal. And so the the you know, the intensive gives you that that more satisfying experience of like, let's dive in and get to the root of this. You know, most of what couples are arguing about is very surface level, and so having more time to really get to the root of it is important. Um, so that's one part of it. Uh, the other part of it, I would say, is my style of therapy. You know, I'm I'm pretty directive, I interrupt and move the conversation and shuffle things around. And so I think certainly plays a role in it too. Um, it's also for a lot of people, they're busy. And so being able to condense everything into a week is a lot different than trying to, you know, commit to a weekly, you know, standing appointment. And um, and then the last thing I'll say is my experience is that doing weekly therapy, couples were relying on me to fix the issue because you know they'd get into an argument and go, Oh, well, Dr. David's gonna take care of it on Tuesday. Whereas when you show up to a retreat and you know this is the chance we have to fix this thing and to get you an answer, it's a totally different mindset that people come in with. And um, I just think it gets better results then. More urgency, you say it's more urgency, it's also more ownership because it's like, listen, you get this time with me for me to help you, and I don't know if I'm gonna see you again. I assume this is my chance to help you, so let's get it done while you're here.

SPEAKER_01 35:22

Makes sense, makes sense. Well, first of all, Dr. David, thanks for being here and sharing the knowledge on uh marriage retreats and couples therapy. It's been enlightening to say the least. I think I understand a little bit better about why these situations break down the way that they do. You're a big part of that, man. So thanks again for being here and uh enlightening our audience, man. I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02 35:43

Yeah, thanks for the invitation. I I I love the conversation, and maybe I'll come back and join that big table someday.

SPEAKER_01 35:50

That'd be nice. So before you get out of here, sir, let us uh know where we can find your work, where we can find information on the marriage retreats, couples therapy, whatever else you may have to offer. You can go ahead and share that now and we get it in the show notes afterwards. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 36:06

Good. So check out marriagequest.org if you want to learn about my process and how to work with me. Uh, marriagequest.org has an uh the option to

How To Get Help And Closing

SPEAKER_02 36:15

sign up for a free consultation if you're ready for help. If you're not quite sure if you're ready for help, check out the blog. It's a free resource. We try to publish regularly on different topics that couples are facing, and it's a good kind of DIY option. If you're if you're not quite thinking, like, okay, this is a profession, this is I need professional support yet, then I would check out that resource.

SPEAKER_01 36:37

I love it. Well, this has been a riveting conversation. Hopefully, we didn't mess up anybody's lives. We're pretty excited about the conversation, man. This is really, really fun, and uh definitely would love to have you involved in more of what we're doing, man. So we gotta stay in touch so we can make that part happen, man. But for you guys that are watching and listening, of course, we're live again on YouTube, Facebook, and LinkedIn. We have this up on the audio listening platform such as Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio, Pandora, Amazon Music, whatever you're using to get your listening, uh, your podcast listening on. So thanks again for making us a part of that. And please subscribe to our YouTube channel to help us out. Got more content like this one. So we thank you for your help with that. And it's been a fantastic show, sir. Thanks again for being here, Dr. David, and he's an expert on what he does. Check him out, marriagequest.org. And I'm Mr. U. Thanks again for watching, listening, and making us a part of your week. We're out of here, check out our shows on every listening platform and social media platform as well. Have a good one. Talk soon.

SPEAKER_00 37:43

Welcome to the men's round table, pull up a chair.