The Men's Roundtable Series Podcast - Business vs. Busyness: Pt 4 - Boundaries

The fastest way to burn out as a husband and father is to confuse motion with progress. We sit down as men who are trying to lead well and tell the truth about what “busyness vs business” looks like in real life, when your house is loud, your phone won’t stop, and your brain never gets a quiet minute to think. We talk about silence as a strength, not a weakness, and why being still can be the most disciplined move you make all week. 

Then we go straight into boundaries, because most of us don’t actually need more motivation, we need clearer rules for our time, energy, and attention. You’ll hear practical examples from men working from home, raising kids, and trying to protect focus without becoming cold or distant. We also unpack the harder side: when boundaries are built from distrust, they can turn into isolation, and when we keep saying yes to everything we end up empty, resentful, and no help to the people we love most. 

The conversation takes a real turn into marriage communication, love languages, respect, appreciation, and physical intimacy and why “top three” lists can help but also harm if you treat them like universal law. We challenge the unwritten playbook of manhood, talk about mission, submission, partnership, and what it looks like to disagree without tearing each other down. If you’re looking for a men’s podcast that blends faith, fatherhood, leadership, and mental health with honest talk, this one will meet you where you are. 

Subscribe, share this with a friend who needs stronger boundaries, and leave a review with the biggest takeaway you’re applying this week.

Transcript

Welcome And Series Recap

SPEAKER_06 0:22

Welcome to the men's roundtable shows podcast. I'm your host, Mr. Ew. I'm I'm so excited about this music, man. I get hyped. I go into a pitch off forgetting that you guys are sitting here watching us. The warriors in the house, man, representing husbands, fathers, brothers, and sons around the country, man, who are tired of the status quo and who want to make a change in themselves and in the world around them. So you guys are a big part of that. Thanks for making us part of your week and your Thursday night. If you're watching, we are live on Facebook, YouTube, and LinkedIn. And of course, we'll have it up on the audio platforms within the next 48 hours or so. But thanks again for making us part of your week. We're here and we're finishing up well, close to finishing up a series on busyness versus business. And we've been deep diving. It's been, I'm gonna let you guys talk about it a little bit, but it's been kind of hard to find words to explain how deep we've been going with some of these series, man. But share your thoughts. First off, let's know how you guys are doing, where you are. Uh hopefully nobody's in bad weather where you are, but uh because it's going on in spots around the country. But let us know how you're doing and what you think about the series so far, how it's impacting you, and then we'll go ahead and get into today's installment. Go for it, guys.

Vulnerability And The Power Of Silence

SPEAKER_04 1:45

Well, I've I've missed the last couple of weeks, but I did watch catch up on the episodes, and then uh a couple of words stand out as to what is what the the discussion has meant to me. One is vulnerability, and the second one is silence. I heard a great conversation that you asked about silence or being in rooms where it's just quiet and giving you time to think, meditate, recharge. And one thing I teach teach my students about nonverbal communication is that silence is one of the most powerful tools we have in our arsenal, and we don't engage and use that tool enough. There's a great need to respond, to reply when we should just use our silence sometimes to say a lot without saying anything at all.

SPEAKER_05 2:51

Thank you. Good stuff, Stu. Thank you. Anybody else?

SPEAKER_03 2:54

Yeah, I'll I jump behind them on that because uh silence has been very big for me during the season. Um is really just learning how to sit still, like like I shared last time. Um we can get so caught up in trying to make everything happen to where sometimes God just wants us to be still and really trust Him. And we'll we are say the prayer, and before we get the answer, we already jumping in with what our idea is and how I can make this work. I can move this, I can move that, I can do this, I can do that, and it all works. And then we get frustrated when it's not working because all God wants you to do is be still, be still and listen to his direction and follow him. Be still and stop talking so much so we can hear him speak. You know, when there's a lot of noise and there's a lot of chaos. Um, and I know there's a change in me because what I've noticed is me being a musician, I like music, I like noise. It doesn't bother what used to not bother me. Now, if I'm in the room and there's too many things going on at once, I get overstimulated. It's like I need peace. Sometimes I just need to sit still and be quiet so I can think and I can hear him clearly. And um, that's been a challenge for me, and that's that's where he has me right now. I'm glad we're having this discussion because I I'm not alone. And seeing how you guys go through it helped me get through it. Um, because again, one of the hardest things for a man to do is be still sometimes. Uh so talk about it.

SPEAKER_05 4:36

Talk about that, that's for real. Anybody else?

SPEAKER_01 4:39

I'll go a different way on this one. You know, we've been focusing on busyness versus business, and any of the guys who have been listening are with us on this journey for the last couple weeks have already heard me say I've been in a big transition period with my business. And you know, they say that God talks to you in lots of ways, right? And it's always like when you need that, you feel like the preacher's talking to you. You like show up at church, you're like, Man, is he just like just straight calling me? Right? Because God puts you where you need to be, when you need to be there, and like this series has been close to my heart as I make this transition because as many of you guys know, you have businesses as you move through business when you go through a big transitional period in your business. You have to, it's harder than just launching a business because you are trying to close off some things and open things all in the right timing and the right space, making sure you're crossing T's and doting I's, and so you're still trying to take care of some leftover and trying to get on the new stuff at the same time. And so this has been just really close to my heart over the last couple weeks. We've been going through this because this is just speaking to my life so completely right now in the situation I'm going through. So it's been a great conversation. Love this man.

SPEAKER_06 5:59

This show it kind of reminds me of what you do when you're like if you if you gotta refinish the table or refinish the chair, what normally happens, you get that scraper, you get all the old the old paint, the old varnish off. That's obvious that a pretty picture, it's uh complete refriction and and and you know and anxiety and angst and everything, and then you smooth it down and then you put on a new finish. And this show does that for us, man, because this is beyond my expectations, man. This is basically a dream come true for me because I feel like you know what, this show answered the cries of men. I said, if men respond to it, it's a W, it's a win. But you guys have overexceeded my expectations, man. Because right out of the gate, what the first week, second week, you guys were sharing stuff out here crying on over the airway. Like these guys are transparent from the get up. I thought it would take weeks to cut through all of the stuff that you know men normally deal with, but you guys have uh over exceeded, man. So I just thank you for doing this. Anyone else want to jump in? You want to jump in on anything?

SPEAKER_00 7:11

Yeah, man, I I love the direction the conversation's going for sure. Um, you know, we've had a couple of great conversations ourselves, but you know, the the whole being still, uh sometimes choosing to not act, you know, uh learning how to wait on the Lord, be still and and not do the things that in our flesh we we want to act, we want to go, we want to push, we want to do, we want to like nothing's happening. I gotta make something happen. I gotta I gotta push, I gotta, I gotta make it happen, I gotta force it to happen because it's not happening the way I want it to. And I I remember I remember um several years ago, I was in a massive custody battle trying to get custody of my son. His mom disappeared at the age of 12. Four years I didn't see him. Brought him home at 16. He's now 21. But during during that period, I can remember God telling me very specifically, very clearly, don't act. And that was the hardest thing for me to do. It's like, no, I need to get the lawyer going. I need to file paperwork, I need to push, I need to, I need to pounce on this right now. I need to force this through. And learning how to wait in that and and let God do what only God can do. Do what I can in the supernatural, but sometimes that means not doing stuff. That man, that's a tough lesson to learn. It's hard, especially as men. No doubt, no doubt.

SPEAKER_06 8:56

Well, that's good stuff,

Stillness And Trusting God

SPEAKER_06 8:58

man. We're gonna talk a little bit about alignment and boundaries tonight. I told y'all last week is gonna be probably gonna be uh a tight fit for the for these last two installments because we're gonna go a little bit deeper than we normally go. Uh just from what I've observed, it's not about our panelists per se, but if you guys are watching and listening, you kind of know that you know boundaries are something that we want, but we don't always set. Does that make sense? We we we want we we want that respected, but we don't actually sit, are we not intentional about setting those? And I really feel like if we're gonna be uh successful in any area, we need to have that uh that kind of strategy executed, right? So we definitely be doing that. So I'd love to ask you guys a question as we get kind of get into the boundaries conversation. What's one area where you feel like your boundaries are infringed upon by somebody else or have been at some point in time? I'm asking that because when I when I when I joke about the guy, it's it's it's a half-hearted joke, it's actually true. The guy that's in the garage, that's an algae we're gonna be using probably forever now. But the guy in the garage that's doing tinkering on stuff, but he ain't really doing nothing. He's trying to just avoid things. For him, that's a boundary. He didn't set it, he just but he expects it to be honored. So he goes into the garage, closing the door, makes noises, has the radio going, metal on metal clanking in there, but he's not really doing anything. He just wants to just avoid the uncomfortability of what's going on inside the house that he's not addressing. And if anybody comes out through that door, he's clearing them like, why are you in my space? He wants boundaries, but he hadn't intentionally established anything. So just ask ask that question there with that thought in mind, with the analogy in mind. What's one area you feel like your boundaries have been infringed upon by somebody else or violated by somebody else?

SPEAKER_05 10:51

Go for it, whenever you're ready. Told you wouldn't get tougher.

SPEAKER_01 11:01

I'm ruthless when it comes to my boundaries, man. Like I'm utterly it took me, it took me a lot of years. It took me a lot of years to try and set some of the boundaries I live in now, but I am ruthless with my boundaries.

SPEAKER_06 11:15

I'll say Rufus, and who is Rufus?

SPEAKER_01 11:17

Yeah, Rufus. Who is that? Uh I have a house with four women in it, and so my I have a house and I work from home and we homeschool at the same time. So my house is chaos most of the time, anyway. And so, like, I have established and set boundaries and I ruthlessly protect them. Uh, because are you able to get examples of this? I know from previous experience when I don't, that's when I get myself into a lot of trouble, is when I don't set those boundaries. So, like, for example, my my kids don't just walk into my office when I'm working and start talking to me. That just doesn't happen now. I've been working from home for years, they don't do that. My wife doesn't do that. They come to the door and they will stand there completely quietly until I actually stop what I'm doing and acknowledge them because they have no idea. I might be on a call like this, right? I might be talking with one of my sponsors or writing a story. And if I'm writing a story for the news program I do, right, you get you know how it is, you get in the middle of something, you break that line of thought, you're like, crap 30 minutes, 40 minutes before you ever get back to it. I'm back on that same line again. And so, like, I have just set these hard boundaries. So, my youngest daughter can be standing there, and she will stand there silent as the grave until I actually pull off my headphones and acknowledge her. Because she doesn't get the response she wants. If she interrupts, she knows. If she tries to break that, she knows she's not getting the answer she wants, and it's probably not going to be a good conversation. Um, and it's because I've established these boundaries because I do work from home. My studio's, you know, 20 feet from where my kids are homeschooling, and the house is active all day. My wife's a school bus driver, so she's in and out throughout the day uh with her varying schedule, and I do the same thing with uh clients. I get I get a barrage of emails all the time, right? And it's because I'm filtering a lot of news for my community as the local news source for my community, and I've got a lot of irons in the fire with that, and so I have to, it's like, okay, it's after a certain time. Yeah, I'm I'm not touching my emails. You'll you'll get tomorrow. I don't get the text messages, I don't have alerts. My phone doesn't send alerts to me. Text messaging is the only thing that alerts my phone. No apps, no social media. My phone has an airtight after a certain time. You can't text me, or I at least want I won't get it, and it doesn't alert for anything but a text message or a phone call.

SPEAKER_05 14:07

Those are boundaries. Love it. Anyone else?

SPEAKER_03 14:10

Yeah, I was waiting. I was waiting because I didn't want to steer the conversation, but Brent kind of went there already. Um, as far as with me, I don't have an issue with brought boundaries. My boundaries are are pretty tight, and that's actually the problem because my boundaries came because I had trust issues and I don't trust people or didn't trust people because I'm getting over that. And I put myself in a point of.

SPEAKER_06 14:36

Amen to that last part.

SPEAKER_03 14:38

I put myself in a point of isolation. So with that, when I meet certain situations, come in certain situations, um I had strong boundaries where uh I'm only gonna tell you certain things, I'm only gonna show you certain things,

Why Boundaries Get Violated

SPEAKER_03 14:55

you're not coming to my house, you know, you know, you know, all those. So I didn't have a problem with boundaries, so to speak. I have boundaries set up all around for every other area, even down in work. But mine came from the wrong place. Like I said, it came from a place of distrust. So I'm on the other end of it, trying to let go some of these boundaries so I can be more personable and uh really grow community the right way.

SPEAKER_06 15:25

I love it. We got a comment from uh Dold on, hold on one second, guys. Let's read this real quick. It says boundaries are super important, but not always in the way we use it. In the book of Joshua, we see boundaries laid out as places God has placed us in, positions and purposes God has given us. It's not always about us having a safe place, sacred place, but about being that for his glory. All right, thank you, brother, for the comment. Appreciate it. Who's next? Who's coming up next? Go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 15:50

I was gonna say, uh, I I struggle with boundaries and telling people no all the time for years, man. Just not wanting to let people down or disappoint them. Wow, and I've learned over the last several years that I have I gotta be okay saying no. And uh they either accept it or they don't, and I'm not saying no out of disrespect or that because I'm angry, I just gotta say no because I don't have the bandwidth to deal with it right now, and you need to be okay with that because I'm okay with it. I've told you, Mr. U. You have I I respect you a lot, but I had to set a boundary with you that in the last seven, eight weeks, I I didn't have the capacity to do anything additional to what I already had going. And you received that in a way that not like I don't mess with you no more. Like, nah, I had a double chip, though. I think a lot wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. I just had to put a pause on it, and that was hard. That used to be really difficult for me because I looked at it as an opportunity to share and pour it into you know whatever out was being asked of me, but I've gotten more comfortable saying no, and and uh it's been a struggle, I'll tell you that. You did a great job.

unknown 17:22

Thank you.

SPEAKER_06 17:23

I got the message loud and clear. You did great. You're better at it, better at it than you think you are. All right, so how about you, brother? When you jump in, man.

SPEAKER_00 17:31

Yeah, I'm much like uh Brent, being that I work from home, the kids know that they they can't interrupt me when I'm on calls because I'm I'm always on some kind of call, some kind of zoom, some kind of meeting, and they'll they'll come and they'll stand and they'll wait. And they'll wait. And sometimes they wait a long time. And they've they've learned that I'm just not going to respond. I'm going to completely ignore them while I'm focused on the thing that I'm doing. And they know that either it's not that important and they can find the solution themselves, or if it is important, they will wait until, like you said, Brent, take out the headphones, mute, turn, and give them my full attention. Um I can remember uh growing up in my early teens and twenties, even, I would say yes to everything, absolutely everything, because I was a people pleaser. I wanted to make everybody happy. I wanted to yes, yes, yes, I'll do that, yes, I'll do that, no problem. And I would get in these cycles of I would say yes to everything, I would completely burn out, and then I was no good to anybody for six months. And I would repeat that pattern over and over and over. And it wasn't until my mid-30s that I finally figured out, oh, I need to, I need to learn how to say no. And now that's uh that that's actually a big part of my victory framework that I teach is learning when to say yes, learning how to say yes to the great, learning how to say no to oftentimes a lot of the good, so that we can say yes to the great, and learning how to identify that and and with wisdom learn that saying no is just as important as saying yes to the right things.

SPEAKER_06 19:27

That good to great part. Say that part again, brother. That was good.

SPEAKER_00 19:34

Saying yes to the the great oftentimes re it is dependent on us learning how to say no to a lot of the good things that we could be doing. So learn how to say no to the good so you can say yes to the great.

SPEAKER_06 19:51

That's fantastic stuff right there. All right. Anyone else want to jump in real quick and we keep on moving?

SPEAKER_04 19:56

Well, I'd like to just compliment Phil on what he just said about how we sometimes are programmed to be people pleasers, but especially as husbands, fathers, we gotta be everything to everybody, and then that starts trickling out into other aspects of our lives. And then we, like he said, end up saying yes to a lot. Now our cup is empty, and we can't pour into other people or other things if the cup is empty, kind of like if your cell phone is running low on battery. You gotta charge that thing back up, you know what I mean? Put the phone down, turn it off, and let it power back up. So when you do get back on it, it's it's it's full speed ahead and you're ready to go. So, and Phil and I, uh I've this is my first time meeting Phil, but it's so interesting how we could both be in the same place and still be experiencing some of the same struggles in something as simple as saying no.

SPEAKER_00 20:54

Yeah, I Sabbath is a big piece of that for me lately, learning how to say no to things so that I can learn how to Sabbath, right? Learning how to take that time and not not letting people pick away at it with various good things. Oftentimes it's it's a whole bunch of good stuff that I could be doing. Um, but learning how to say no to that so that I can Sabbath say yes to the great. Uh super, super important and and really tough to learn sometimes.

SPEAKER_05 21:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 21:27

I gotta ask y'all about that because now I love how we have these cool pivots like this. That's what this is right now for sure. Because you guys mentioned something that I feel like would be crazy to let it kind of slide by. I forgot which one of you guys mentioned it, but it's about how the father is kind of almost required to be all these things, and it's like I've seen fathers that have done that, and I'll I'll be honest with you, it doesn't look good, it's not really a long a good long term strategy

Work From Home Boundary Rules

SPEAKER_06 21:59

because. You're definitely going to run out of gas at some point. You're going to run out of juice at some point. And you're going to do that probably when somebody again needs you to do something. What's your action going to be? What kind of friction is it going to cause in the household? I'm going to ask you guys this, just overall, as parents, do you agree with the premise that we're supposed to be this give all and take nothing attitude? Or do you see more of a balance? Or tell me how you feel about it, just for those that are watching and listening. Give context to those that are watching and listening to, of course. But how do you guys feel about that generally speaking? Go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 22:51

And I think most of us went the other direction. It's like, oh no, our boundaries are solid. That came from all of us having our boundaries invaded for the most part at one point. All of us who went, oh no, my boundaries are like I said ruthless, right? That's because at some point, I just don't remember, our boundaries were all getting violated on a regular basis. We had to learn to actually set hard boundaries if we were going to be successful at the things we were doing. As far as like being all things to your family, this is one of the hardest conversations I've had with guys I've worked with and the coach is you can't, because I'm that guy. I will burn myself into the ground to give to my family to the point where I will make myself sick. Like I will literally work until I fall down sick, and then I'm down for a couple days, right? And I've had to teach myself and I had to start to accept not only is it okay for me to take time to put back into myself. If I'm going to be the father my children need, if I'm gonna show up as the husband and father I'm supposed to be, I can't just I need to do it sometimes. I have to. I am required, I am required to pour into myself because as Steve was saying, right? You run out of the cup runs empty if you don't, and then you're useless to everybody. You you aren't the father husband you need to be, and so to be that father, that husband, you absolutely are required to protect some time for yourself to recharge, otherwise, you're falling down as both.

SPEAKER_00 24:36

Best analogy I've heard uh on that is similar is you know, if you're if you lose cabin pressure in a plane, the the oxygen masks drop down, right? And what what what do they tell you to do? Put yours on first before you help somebody next to you, before you help the kids, before you help the elderly, you got to put yours on first. You you have to make sure that you have a source first and foremost, and that requires taking time to Sabbath, that requires taking time to pray and read your Bible and and be in the word and and really get time with the Lord because you can't give from something you don't already have, you can only give so much.

SPEAKER_03 25:21

Yeah, I agree with all of you, and uh, but what I'm hearing, I'm hearing, and this is how I feel as the husband and as the father, you are still all things to everybody when it comes to your family. What I'm hearing is how you are able to do that, because you also have to, like you said, you have to take time for you, so you have to be all things for yourself first before you can answer their call and their needs. Um, which goes back to something we said a few sessions ago when we talk about work-life balance, and it really depends on the individual, you know, what that looks like for you. But at the end of the day, you have to take time for yourself, you have to nurture yourself uh physically, mentally, spiritually, before you're able to pour into your husband, into your wife or your child, uh, you know, things of that nature. So in the end of the day, like I said, we're we still are in the mindset that we have to be all things. But what we're discussing is how that's possible.

SPEAKER_04 26:34

Well, if I had the answer, I'd be selling it like hot cakes, because it's it's so subjective, you know. We could try to be all things to our our spouses and our kids, but we can't do it all the time.

unknown 26:51

Right.

SPEAKER_04 26:51

And it goes, it ties directly into the boundaries question. Setting boundaries like you guys have set with your kids, they know when they can and can't come into the room while you're working. That goes into, you know, it for those of us who have adult kids, we have to set boundaries with them as well. I'll we'll spend time with the grandkids for a period of time, we will help pay for things for a certain period of time. There are those boundaries, but you know, there's gotta be uh you know, a left and a right lateral limit, and sometimes I didn't do a good job of staying within those limits because I don't want to see my kids struggling. And at the expense of my own financial uh well-being, being tired and hurting, but I still got a responsibility that I need to take care of to help them so that they don't have to struggle because they do have me here. And it's really challenging balancing when to say when. And I will tell you, having a partner that you're on the same page with when it comes to setting boundaries and not overextending yourself, particularly when it comes to the well-being of your kids, man, that has helped me out tremendously because it I did need my wife to

When Boundaries Become Isolation

SPEAKER_04 28:20

pull me back sometimes and say, You can't do that no more. Or I had to ask my wife to hey, come back. We we can't do this anymore. So you know it's the yin and yang, the pull and tug, and find trying to find the right balance for the situation. And my playbook won't work for anybody else's playbook. It really takes a lot of communication and listening and being patient to figure it out.

SPEAKER_01 28:50

It's actually really critical in your relationship as a husband and as a father for you to set healthy boundaries and to model healthy boundaries because you're gonna save your children years as a father, and you're gonna give your wife permission to have her boundaries because sometimes it's really easy, especially with like young mothers, for them to get just run over all the time and feel like they're always have to engage, and and for them to actually know it's okay to say, No, you know what, mommy needs mommy needs an hour to have some coffee and go take a hot shower and eat some hot food, and I'll take care of the kids, right? It's important for us to set that example of setting really healthy boundaries. We're teaching our children to set healthy boundaries to keep you know people who are toxic out of their life and prevent them from being taken advantage of. We're giving them permission to set boundaries and learn what those are. Uh, it is it is such an important role in the way we show up as a husband, as a father, and as a man for us to set those boundaries because by doing so, we teach others that that's okay for them to have boundaries too.

SPEAKER_06 30:05

I love it. It's been said, I don't know who who said it, but this is uh been put out there that men respond to three things. I want you to tell me if you agree with it. Uh, and if you agree with it as is, or if you don't agree with it because you think it should be modified, something should be added, taken away. Sex drug no, none of those. The three things uh sorry, you two, I didn't say that. The three three the three things are responsibility, provision, and respect. Just this should be a quick answer here with that. You agree with that as the three things, the three things that we respond to, or is there a modification need to be made? Responsibility, provision, and respect.

SPEAKER_04 30:56

No, anytime you put these are the only three ways, that's that's a red flag right there. That happens to men all the time if you haven't noticed. That's exactly right. And it's up to us to say, right, those three things might be the key for you, but I might have other uh, you know, another set of three or five things that are more important on my priority list. So I think it's it's good to make suggestions as to these are the three things that may have worked for me that you might want to try out, but when it can't be that rock solid because we are so different and our life situations are so diverse that your three may not work for RL or Philip, but it will work for Brent.

SPEAKER_06 31:43

Hey, Phil, I'm gonna jump in real quick. When we were in DC, do you recall the conversation we had about the three things that men need to kind of uh do you remember that conversation?

SPEAKER_00 31:56

The the you're talking about the three things that men need from their wives, right?

SPEAKER_06 32:02

Do you remember that? Yeah. You I'm I'm not gonna say baggy, brother obsessing your question in front of everybody. Are you good with are you are you good with repeating that, or that's something we can just drop? I'm okay either way, it ain't no big deal. You good with repeating that? Because it may be open to scrutiny, which is actually in advance.

SPEAKER_00 32:21

I I'm open. I I'll share it. Go for it. All right. So it it's been it's been my experience that men really really need three things in in their uh relationships with their wives specifically actual literal food, intimate food. We need we need food, we need sex, intimacy, and uh we need

Learning To Say No

SPEAKER_00 32:55

respect, love, appreciation. Um there's there's some other ways to say it, but it's I well what I say is the we we need that that verbal piece of the uh appreciation, and that boils down to respect, right? If you if you read love and respect, I I call it appreciation, you can put it under the respect category, but um yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:29

I got you, DL. We're good.

SPEAKER_04 33:34

Oh my goodness. No, again, the the pushback I would I would caution is uh I'm not sure if you guys are familiar with the the five love languages or the love languages, right? So your love language and your spouse's love language may not be the same in regards to priorities. So what what I need and what my spouse needs and wants aren't the same. And I I ran into trouble giving my wife my version of the love languages, and she didn't have she didn't receive it, and I wondered why. It's because I never took the time to ask her what are your love languages and what how how do you want me to prioritize those? How do you want me to love you not how I want to love you? And I messed that up for well over 20 years, messed it up. So that's that's why I I kind of push back a little bit as a way to say those three may work for you, Phil, in your relationship, but we we should be careful not to project that onto everybody because the next you know, a young guy early in marriage tries that with his spouse, and it it you know it don't work, you know what I'm saying? Cause a lot of problems.

SPEAKER_06 34:59

You heard that DL? You heard that DL? You listening out there, brother? Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned it, man. Because I don't see a scenario where we're gonna do a series on the the five love languages, I just don't see that happening. So I'm glad you brought it up so we can kind of get it out of the way, but I don't see it happening. We may do that, yeah. I don't see it happening. If more men, but good luck with that.

SPEAKER_04 35:24

I would say more than yeah, if more young men get exposed to understanding the five love languages early in their relationships, I think you can avoid a lot of pitfalls. I know for me, I hear you it would have helped me a lot. I ain't the sharpest tool and I don't learn fast again. It took me 20 plus years to realize I was doing it wrong. Fair enough.

SPEAKER_01 35:48

Well, see, so it's not wrong on this one, though, Steve. It it's it's the terminology he's using. So, as a former minister, I'll jump in here because I've I've married people, I've count done marriage counseling with people. Um, for men, respect is more important than love. A man doesn't have to feel a love the way we normally describe it. A man has to feel respected in a marriage, he has to feel appreciated. Appreciated was actually the correct word. You you mentioned that, and then you went back and forth on the other. But that's where that love language comes in, Steve. It's not when we we we got to translate that to love because that's what appreciation really is being feeling loved in the way we experience love, right, shows up as appreciation. So it's respect, it's appreciation, like we're actually they're trying to express love in the way we receive it, is the way we feel appreciated, and then physical intimacy, because if a man isn't feeling even if you aren't particularly if physical intimacy isn't your primary love language, a man has to experience some kind of physical intimacy with his spouse, or they will absolutely resent each other and disconnect. Men need that, and and that can be something as simple as like my wife reaching over and grabbing my hand and initiating grabbing my hand, right? Not me reaching for her hand is a form of intimacy, and that makes me feel appreciated because a physical touch is a big thing for me, right? I feel appreciated, I feel the affection, even if we're not, you know, in the bedroom, that reaching over and taking my hand when we're driving somewhere, right? So it's feeling that intimacy, that way we express love, that appreciation, and the respect is critical for men. Men can go without feeling their traditional love, that whole lovey dovey non-crap they throw up on movies and in Disney movies and stuff like that. All those lies. Men don't need that. Men need to feel respected, or they'll walk away from a relationship every time. They need a physical form of intimacy, or they'll walk away from a relationship every single time, and they need to feel appreciated, like they're seen for what they're doing.

SPEAKER_00 38:04

It it really boils down to having that feeling of being desired by the woman that said yes to us, uh, specifically for married men. But when when you say I do as a man, you're you're telling the world that I will forsake all other forms of sexual intimacy. And you're the you're the only one as my bride that that will ever happen with. And if she pulls that away, if if the physical sexual intimacy is not there, I don't care who you are, that that man eventually will come to resent the woman that he said yes to. That's a must. We we want to feel desired as men.

SPEAKER_03 39:00

I I I hear you, and I I somewhat agree. If we look at it as a broad umbrella, I would give you guys that. But I have to leave, I have to lean towards Steve because it's the way that these things are expressed. Though, on a broad sense, yes, we all need that, but we may receive them differently. For example, one of the things that you say, and you said a man needs to hear certain things, almost like the words of affirmation. Well, for me, I don't need that. Actually, that's almost one of the worst things you can do because of my upbringing. I'm a more of don't talk about it, be about it. Because a lot of people say a lot of things, but they never do it. So if you want to show me that respect and you want to show me that love, then be who you say you are, do what you say you're gonna do. Don't just tell me, don't say you love me or you care for me. Show me you love you love me and you care for me. You know, so that's what I'm saying. As Steve was saying, the way we express those things and the way we receive those things may be different. So we gotta be careful with that terminology because you wanna you don't want to try to put somebody in a box and they say if you're not doing it this way, then you don't respect me when you know she may express differently, you may receive and express differently, and you're gonna, if you don't understand that, this is what this is what's gonna happen all the time. Then with the physical aspect of it, I do understand it and I do agree, however, for better or worse, you saying if a man does not get that, what happens when she's in a position and she cannot do that?

SPEAKER_01 40:46

Do you resent her then?

SPEAKER_04 40:48

That's a really complicated, rare what if, and that's why we can't be concrete and saying these are B3, and it's understood.

SPEAKER_01 40:58

No one is saying a hundred percent of a hundred percent of a hundred percent. That's why I said appreciated, not loved, because how you feel appreciated or how you feel loved is gonna differ on your love languages. Call complimenting me is a waste of my wife's breath, right? So that's why I said appreciated as opposed to loved, but for real staying on these love languages, aren't we?

SPEAKER_06 41:21

Yeah, we we we are we are there. That's something I don't have much to add to this. I know what they are, I can talk about them competently, but I'm gonna just sit here and watch y'all talk about love languages because I ain't gonna be a business.

SPEAKER_01 41:36

Even even if the person is paralyzed, they can still hold your hand, you can still sit by their bed and hold their hand, right? So we're not when we talk about physical intimacy, that's why I said my wife reaching over and holding my hand. That is physical intimacy as much as her being in my bed in a physical way, right? Curling up with her at night after we've had a long day, because we've had those days where it's like, yeah, we're both dead, but just being able to snuggle up next to my wife, right? That's still physical intimacy that I only share with her. So we're no one's saying, and we've always made that clear on the show 100 of 100 of 100. But every time to that men need to be feel respected, they need some form of physical intimacy, and they need to feel appreciated in whatever love language they feel appreciation in.

SPEAKER_04 42:30

So, do any of you not have security in your top three?

SPEAKER_06 42:37

Secure, security, define,

Parenting Without Burning Out

SPEAKER_06 42:40

define it. You talk about we need to feel secure or create security.

SPEAKER_04 42:45

I'm just throwing a uh a trait or an attribute out there that is not in one of the five love languages that is very important to me. Security for me is very important. Security that when I leave the house, I know that my wife and kids are safe and they're taken care of because I have been gone for extended periods of time where I didn't have uh no no intimacy because we've we were logistic, uh you know, uh proximity-wise, we were not in the same place. I was secure enough to know that when I left, my wife was holding things down. That's more important to me than several any of a lot of the other love languages. That's why I say going back to what RL threw in there about not being a box and only talking about those three. If if any of you have ever been away from your spouse for an extended period of time, just think about what your priorities are while you're away. You know.

SPEAKER_06 43:57

I think you said you would have had the security of knowing that, you know. Everything you built is still intact, so to speak.

SPEAKER_04 44:03

Yeah. I get that. Because I I've I've had experience with individuals who did not have that security, and uh their wife wasn't paying the bills, emptied the bank account, emptied the house, they came back, then know what was what, you know. Now being able to go off and do some of the things that uh is required from time to time, security for me meant more than a lot of that other stuff, and maybe it it changes at different phases of your life, which is why being flexible with these uh love languages. If we come back to that terminology, that's why that's why I kind of push back a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 44:55

But that's acts of service, which is one of the five love languages. My wife, my kids, and my house when I was gone on business trips, paying our bills, handling our accounts. That that's acts of service. She knows that speaking to me. Okay, that's fair.

SPEAKER_06 45:20

We still talk about the five little languages.

SPEAKER_00 45:22

Well, and I I I want to go a little bit deeper because to me that that speaks of a a much deeper problem that could be rooted in a trust issue rather than a you know loving relationship. There's the there's a disconnect that happens in in that case if there's a lack of trust that that that's speaking to something different than just a lack of love languages.

SPEAKER_04 45:59

Fair trust is and trust isn't on that list either, it's just how it's framed, you know. Right. That that's that's a fair point. What was the original question? We still are off the railroad. Nobody cares. I'm enjoying hearing a different perspective.

SPEAKER_06 46:22

Uh that's the answer. Nobody cares about what the original question was. But you know, one thing that you guys said that you know is uh really deep. We had like basically we had we had we had uh one three part three option question, and then we had a second one that Phil brought in, and then we got the five love languages, and then we went totally out of the way. So I'll be I'll be honest with you. This trick stream bingo, you know, you know what happened. It's all it's all good though. We're gonna finish the show, finish the show with the five love languages.

SPEAKER_04 46:59

Let's put it in the other way. You asked Phil to talk about those three that that were passed in that uh meeting you guys had in DC, and I and immediately I said, It's gotta be there's gotta be more than three, so it just kind of sparred up.

SPEAKER_06 47:16

No, that that and that's and that's true, like I said, man. We we as men and we talk, I I don't I try to make it a rallying cry, but let's be honest, man. We get put in categories a lot by people, yeah, even people in our own household sometimes. No offense to anybody on this call, but that happens a lot. It's like, oh, he likes this, he likes that. That stuff with the father's day, I talked about that probably I don't know how many last year sometime, but the father, the typical Father's Day gift, that thing impacts me, man. Because I mean, for me, it's it's like the bow tie and the visor and the macaroni picture. It's not that it's bad, but it's like if you think that that's after spending time with me, being around me, knowing what I like, if you think that's all I want, I ain't saying you get to get think I've been getting a marginati. I'm not saying that, but I mean that bow tie is ugly. You know I can't wear it nowhere. That visor is for that visor's for a certain season. What am I gonna wear that? So it's like you know, there's little things that you can do. I know that Father Digging have evolved since those days, but the mindset to me feel like it's still there. People just kind of put us in a category. This is what they like as a whole. Now, what Brent likes and what Stu likes, this is what men like. So if you don't see it in your household, guess what? You are blessed and privileged, don't worry about what I'm talking about. But the people who are watching, listen to this who know what I'm talking about, and they know that people are putting them in a category, and we're way more complex than that. We're not like I talk to my brother Oscar many times. Say, you know, we we we're more than just cavemen and knuckle draggers. We we got we got something more inside of us than that. So that's why I say always tell him, don't say that, don't call yourself that because we're more than that, we're more complex than that. We're not we're not just husbands, fathers, brothers, and sons, but we got we got layers to us, it's a deepness to us, and because of the DNA of God inside of us, that makes it even more deeper. So we can't just be the person that oh what you can satisfy them with that and get him out of the way. We want more than that, and in this conversation about the five love languages proves it. You made my point for me.

SPEAKER_04 49:24

I'm gonna go on the five love languages. I'm gonna tie what you just said as an example of why that formula does not work universally. Gifts for me, receiving gifts means zero. I don't want gifts, and I projected me not wanting gifts into not being a gift giver. That's why I messed up. So for you, Father's Day and receiving a gift of thought is it means a lot to you, right? For me, I don't think it's a mate, it's for me, it's a it's uh a series of made-up holidays meant to generate profit

Love Languages And What Men Need

SPEAKER_04 50:07

for somebody. Yeah, I don't need that. I just need my kids to reach out and say, Hey daddy, I love you every now and then. That's Father's Day, you know what I mean. So again, you Mr.

SPEAKER_06 50:21

You need to uh yeah, you you need to no no no that's not my that's that's not my love language. That's not my love, no no no, that's not my love language. No, you you mr. You nothing. That's not my love language. You need to communicate okay, not Mr.

SPEAKER_04 50:39

You people similar Mr. You need to communicate what you what you like and what you don't like, and that just comes from having a simple conversation, guys. Y'all know I ain't into the Father's Day, I ain't into the gift giving. Just come over and we could we could talk and chill out, and and I'm good. That's Father's Day for me. But if you need a gift, then it let them know, verbalize. Hey, I expect a certain amount of gift giving when these holidays roll around. Does that make sense? Not you, Mr.

SPEAKER_06 51:17

Youth, but not to me, it goes over my head.

SPEAKER_03 51:21

But like it's about communicating and having that conversation, letting them know what your expectations are. Because a lot of the times we get disappointed because we have unmet expectations that were never spoken. So we're expecting these things, but we never communicate those things, and then once it happened, then we're upset and we're all in our field. Um, and you know, also what I look when I when I hear this whole conversation, it goes back to another conversation we had a while ago, which is about that unwritten playbook, and what we're basically doing, we are dismantling that unwritten playbook because it's that playbook that has us in this box. We all grew up thinking this is the way a man is supposed to be, so we suppress what we really feel what we really are because we're trying to meet those standards, and those standards are really if it doesn't line up with the word of God, then it ain't really the standard, to be honest with you. Because the word of God basically tells us how to be the husband, it tells us how to be the father, and a lot of these things with these unwritten playbooks go against that, you know, even when you come to um like being like being the head of the household, in some traditions, they treat the wife as a subordinate. When the Bible tells her, tells you that she's your equal, we are joint heirs. The Bible says we are joint heirs. The Bible also says that if we speak, if we don't speak to her right, God will not answer our prayers.

SPEAKER_01 53:00

That's right, but it also says that the wife is subordinate to her husband. That's semantics. So I don't know. That's what you're arguing, is semantics. We're all equal in the grace of God.

SPEAKER_03 53:14

No, what I'm saying is you treat her less than, so I may have used the wrong wording, but I mean what I'm saying is some cultures they treat her less than, like she's worthless, like she's a servant. Yeah, so that that's what I was leaning toward. Yeah, so I may have used the wrong wording, but that's what I'm that's what I'm saying there.

SPEAKER_04 53:37

Yeah, I understand. I I unequally yoked. If we're going to scripture, it all depends on how you interpret and process that. If you have a head of household mindset that networks for you and your relationship, fine. I don't. My wife and I are on the same, we have the same power, we have the same authority, and it works for our relationship because my wife is way smarter, way brighter, way more intelligent than I am. And that doesn't make that doesn't challenge my manhood, it doesn't challenge my authority. I have a certain role that I need to fill. My wife has other roles, and we complement each other because we're in we're a partnership, right? And I'm saying that uh not to dispute what you're saying, but I messed it up for so long. I messed it up for so long. Being in competition with my wife, and I ain't even know I was in competition with her, and it wasn't an authority thing, it's just how I was wired as a Marine. You know, I needed I need to do this to push her to be better, and that's not what she needed for me. So that that's why I I I agree. We there is no superiority, inferiority in my house. I don't roll like that.

SPEAKER_03 55:06

And I think and I agree with you on that, but that's what I was saying. That unwritten playbook, so that unre written playbook creates that box, not in just that area, but in other areas, to where it says if you don't meet this standard, then you're not a man. Yeah, and and it's we gotta get rid of it.

SPEAKER_00 55:25

I think there's an important word that that we're missing, and that that's the the word submission, right? It's not that your wife is is less than or equal to it, it's it has to do with the mission. She is to submit, it's it's a submission, it she's to come under the mission that you are supposed to be on God's mission. And if you are on mission for God, your wife is to submit to be on a submission with you, to be in submission to you under submission to Christ, and therefore you're going in the same direction. The problem

Submission Mission And Marriage Roles

SPEAKER_00 56:12

arises when A, we as the men are not on mission, and therefore neither is our wife, and then you have two separate missions going in two separate directions, and that's where a lot of major issues come into play, largely because we're not on mission. Women are wired, God put it in them to love and and support and and be drawn to a man on mission. And if you're not on mission, she's going to, whether she understands or not, she's she's not going to be following you if you're not on mission.

unknown 57:00

Right.

SPEAKER_04 57:01

So the the husband is only to submit to God and and not to his partner, right? Is that is that where you're going? Okay. I just don't I don't agree with that. Not scripturally, not not uh uh not in reality. Uh it doesn't it doesn't align with my interpretation of of the instructions of of Christianity. I think those those social scripts have been in embedded in our society that men are in power and do not have to submit to women. And if there's any facts to dispute that lineage or that heritage or that history of men projecting their dominance over women because they take a scripture out of the book out of context, that is not right. That is not in the will of God to have your wife feeling superior or she's the only one doing the submitting. Men have to submit if you want a relationship to work and make your partner feel as valued as they need to be. I don't know if that makes sense or not, but I know that's what works for me.

SPEAKER_06 58:28

All right, we have many times on the show where we didn't 100% agree with each other, and guess what? Still loving each other every single week, so ain't no big deal. All right, I'm just in these comments real quick, and then we're gonna go ahead and close this show out today. Uh let you guys get some final words in after this. Raven said, I understand what you were saying, and this is very true. I agree with you. Not sure who she was talking about, but somebody's getting some love there. Our fellow panelists and the host of the daughter podcast says, I don't know that we have to get rid of the playbook altogether, but it needs to be revised, and those plays may need to be rewritten. And DL, the host and founder of the low life show, says, Good show, words of affirmation. I'll be sure to share acts of service, high five, physical touch. I love you all. Three out of five. DL, you are the best, man. We love you, brother. Thank you, sir. All right, any closing thoughts? You're gonna be round Robin. If you have any to round us out, because next week is the very last one, guaranteed to be a showstopper because all the good stuff didn't make it onto the show.

SPEAKER_04 59:32

So I appreciate the I appreciate the diversity of opinions, and I think it's healthy because uh uh there are so many different people watching who have different lived experiences, and they need to hear from somebody like me, they need to hear from somebody like Brent and Phil, where we don't see eye to eye, but we we're not insulting each other, and we can have a civil conversation and not not agree, and that's okay, that's healthy for dialogue and conversation, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:05

Yeah, absolutely. I we've totally lost this idea where we can actually discuss ideas where we don't necessarily agree, but we can discuss them and and still love each other, yeah, and and appreciate each other and and the opinions that we have without being you know, name calling and getting angry and whatnot. But uh, I I look forward to continuing conversation, see see what happens.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:32

Absolutely, yeah. That's what men's supposed that's what men's supposed to be able to do without fighting and shooting each other. Raven said, I was talking about big bro hl from my RL. Okay, copy that job, all right. Yep, okay. She kind of cleaned it up now. It's all good. Thank you so much, Raven. Appreciate it. Well, this show is man, the whole idea show is restoration, man. So that's what

Final Thoughts And Share With Friends

SPEAKER_06 1:01:05

we're trying to do, man. We're trying to help men get better, help us get better at the same time about something we ain't been good at for a while, or we never been good at. So that's what this show is all about, man. So the cutting on each other is a good thing. So love and appreciate you guys, man. Any other closing thoughts? I don't want to cut nobody off, but we're gonna get them in, man. Before I start playing music.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:30

It's been a great conversation.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:32

Yep. Iron and common.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:36

That's right.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:37

All right. Now go out there and tell her friend about what we got finished talking about. Help some folk out in your neck of the woods, man. All right, we appreciate you guys so much. Thanks for watching the men's roundtable series podcast live on Facebook, uh, LinkedIn, and YouTube. And of course, we'll be on audio very shortly. Thanks again for watching and listening. Warriors, husbands, fathers, brothers, and sons. Doing it every single day, every single week, every single year. Love you.